Episode #142 Overland Testing Mashup: Raptor R, TRX, Grenadier, 4Xe Trailhawk, Defender 130 and more!

Show Notes for Podcast #142
Overland Testing Mashup: Raptor R, TRX, Grenadier, 4Xe Trailhawk, Defender 130 and more!

For the Spring Vehicle Mashup, Matt Scott and Scott Brady discuss the recent crop of test vehicles, including the Rivian R1S, GMC Sierra AT4x, Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 4Xe, Hummer SUV, Ford Maverick Tremor, Defender 130, and more. 

With the vehicle manufacturers continuing to raise the bar, we are seeing more and more capable overland platforms, with better capability, capacity, and payload. The vehicles in this mashup are some of the finest overland platforms ever released in North America, including the Built on Purpose Grenadier. 


Host Bio

Scott Brady

Scott is the publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and includes three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady

Matthew Scott

Matthew is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world's most remote places by 4WD and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. He is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore


Scott Brady:  Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Brady, and for this week my co-host Matt Scott, and I talk about our recent vehicle mashup. So this is all of the vehicles that we've been testing and using in the field over the last six months that includes, Some really interesting time in the Ford Raptor R and in the T R X.mWe also spent quite a bit of time in the Hummer, EV, SUV, the Rivian, R one S SUV, and then we had some really amazing surprises with the Jeep Grand Cherokee Trail, Hawk four by E, which we'll talk about in great detail. And then we also were able to drive the GMC A T four X Sierra, which is their 1500 or their half ton variant that even has rear and front lockers, along with Multimatic suspension and a bunch of other things. We talk about some other cars as [00:01:00] well, but this is really our overview of some of the newest overland vehicles on the market. So please enjoy our conversation about trucks. This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in 2006 with the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews along with the most stunning adventures and photography.mWe care deeply about the and cultures. We visit and share our experiences freely with our readers. We also have zero advertorial policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews. By subscribing to Overland Journal, you're helping to support our employee owned and veteran owned publication. Your support also provides resources and funding for content like you are watching or listening to right now. You can subscribe directly on our [00:02:00] website@overlandjournal.com. So Matt, we have had a lot of cars.

Matt Scott: All of them. 

Scott Brady: We, I think that this is the first time ever that we've actually had more test vehicles come through this parking lot than the vehicles that you have personally purchased.

Matt Scott: Yeah, I'm, I'm a terrible person. 

Scott Brady: It has been. I mean, if we were to do the whiteboard list, there are many times that Matt is buying cars personally faster than we're getting in test vehicles. Yeah. But you gotta, it's a fun hobby for you and.

Matt Scott: I enjoy it.

Scott Brady: You have somehow managed to make it work, and many times make money.

Matt Scott: Yeah. Or lose a only a small amount, I guess. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, exactly. Which is pretty amazing. I mean, and we've got a list of vehicles that we're gonna talk about. So we're gonna talk about the Raptor R. We're gonna talk about the TRX. We're gonna talk about the Grand Cherokee Trail, Hawk four by E. We're gonna talk about the Wrangler four by E. The Rivian, R one s, the Hummer, S u V, the defender one 30, the Maverick Tremor, the AT4x. And also a [00:03:00] big update on the Grenadier. Cause I spent some more time in that incredible vehicle. So we were gonna talk about some grand touring stuff, but you're gonna have to wait till another podcast. We're just not gonna make it work.

Matt Scott: Too much on the docket.

Scott Brady: Too much on the docket. But we are gonna start covering a little bit more grand touring because it is such a fun way to travel. And Matt and I enjoy it. So that's what this has always been about, is doing the things that, yeah, that bring us joy. Grand touring happens to now be one of those things. So yeah. We promise to not have too many sailboat or Grand Touring podcast.

Matt Scott: But people seem to like it. 

Scott Brady: They do the.

Matt Scott: And I like talking about it. 

Scott Brady: The numbers have been good. Well, I think it'd be fun to start off with these super trucks. So the Raptor are, and the T R X, it very much seems like the Raptor R was Ford's somewhat expedient response to the TRX. What do you think? 

Matt Scott: Yeah, I mean, I had a TX when they first came out. It was.

Scott Brady: You had a Raptor too. 

Matt Scott: I had a raptor. I think people thought that the Raptor R [00:04:00] was gonna be a like T R X killer and I don't think it turned out to be a T R X killer. 

Scott Brady: And I've driven them now back to back. Yeah. And it's like, this is something worth talking about. We have always avoided testing these. Long travel. Desert oriented trucks. Many people actually use raptors for overlanding. And there are certain configurations where they actually make a lot of sense. In fact, when I rolled into Usua on Expedition seven, the only other overlander at the place we were staying was a Raptor with a four wheel camper in the back of it. They have been driven clearly long distance.

Matt Scott: Yeah. I mean, they're an f150 with better factory suspension. They're a little wider. Scott Brady: The downside is they have always been neutered on payload. So you end up with a payload less than a Honda Accord. In a full size truck. And that means that you really can't put a camper in it. You really, I mean, if you have three full size adults, you can't even put a [00:05:00] 500 pound tongue weight of towing Something behind it. So, but that is starting to improve. So the Raptor R 700 horsepower 5.2 liters, supercharged, v8, like 15 inches of suspension travel, 37 inch tires from the factory.

Matt Scott: It's big.

Scott Brady: And it has a 1600 pound payload. So you can actually Yeah. Start to carry some stuff, put a light in rack on the back. 

Matt Scott: That's the same as my prospector was. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. So there you go. So, and that's after all the cool stuff. So it's got, already got all the cool stuff on it. And it's got a 1600 pound payload. So this was my, I've driven your T R X before. Very short distances, but actually on a fairly technical piece of trail and that shocked me. How well, how much articulation it had and how it performed. 

Matt Scott: It works with what it has. Pretty, pretty good.

Scott Brady: Rear locker and everything else, but the Raptor R was really the first time I've had a long test period with one of these super trucks. And a lot of positive [00:06:00] impressions on the Raptor. It, it feels like.

Matt Scott: Cheap plastic. Sorry. 

Scott Brady: Well, and that's what we'll talk about cuz that's the real difference with the trx, but the Raptor feels like a very. Well executed performance package. So when it comes to driving it at high speed on the dirt, when it comes to how the transmission works, how it actually drives in a performance setting, I was extremely impressed. In fact, it has, it has an incredible amount of reserve capacity and performance. The challenge is finding a place to actually test that safely. So, The only time I was able to do that was in a wash where it's not a public road. You're able to to drive. Plenty of.

Matt Scott: Get after it. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah. Plenty of visibility. But everything else, you kind of have to be careful. And that's the downside to these trucks is that. They can be driven at speeds that are not legal on forest roads or blm [00:07:00] roads, which most of those have a 25. 

Matt Scott: They, they can be driven at speeds that just aren't safe, even in closed courses. Yeah, I mean you're, you're talking about vehicles now that are approaching, like they're not race cars is what I'm trying to get at, but they're approaching the same speeds and you know, they have pretty decent wheel travel now. And you can really get yourself into some trouble. 

Scott Brady: And 37s too. So yeah, the tire size has gotten so big. It's incredible. The raptor just kept getting better and better and better as the speed went up. It has, I mean, this is another thing. It has 700 horsepower. If you think you're gonna hop in that thing and like stick it in two wheel drive and lock the rear diff and like kind of have some fun with this thing, you're, you're crazy. Like, this is literally what I do for a living. And I did that for a bit. And it was extremely fun. Matt Scott: You can, you can put it in two-wheel drive still? 

Scott Brady: You can, yeah. 

Matt Scott: The trx, it's all-wheel drive or nothing.

Scott Brady: That's right. So yeah, you can have the Raptor in two-wheel drive. 700 horsepower going [00:08:00] to 37 in the rear. And if you think about accelerating the car sideways, I mean, you haven't even touched the accelerator yet. Your, your brain has thought, I'm going to accelerate in this corner to get a little bit of rotation and the car is already sideways.

Matt Scott: That's moving.

Scott Brady: And yeah, they are in, they're incredible. But what I found myself doing is just going into Baja mode. All-wheel drive and then the thing was much safer, much more enjoyable. Like over the top. Absolutely over the top. But because it has a 1600 pound payload, you can put a light or a rack in the back. You put a roof tent on the thing that hopefully would hold together. I don't know what roof tent would be the right choice, but something that would hold together. Maybe some deck drawers. You've got great travel.

Matt Scott: Pretty practical that has a warranty that has it. It'll have a great resale value. I mean, there's probably people that bought. I think, I think when the Raptors launched, if I, if I recall correctly, they started at just under $40,000. Those trucks now have [00:09:00] 150,000 miles on them and they're still $30,000. Like that. I mean, we're talking about a car that has a really, really great residual value. It's an F-150. It has all the practicalities of an F-150. My problem with them is there's the sticker price of a Raptor R. You are not going to get one at sticker price. Maybe in a couple years you'll be able to get one they sell for $150,000. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. It was incredible though. Yeah. And it's just, it's so inspiring to see the kinds of performance on the full spectrum. So let's look at a, a Rubicon a 20th anniversary. Rubicon. And then let's look at a Raptor R. So the as slow as you can go with a Rubicon and it's like nothing that's ever been made before. And then you have as fast as you can go. Like a TRX or is a Raptor. And there's nothing like that that's ever been made before. 700 horsepower, supercharged engines. With over a [00:10:00] foot of travel. 37. They're just unbelievable. On both sides of the spectrum. It's so exciting and.

Matt Scott: And it's, it'll be crazy to see where these things go, because obviously they have these very profitable models. Now, Raptor is big business, not only for Ford, but Ford dealers, because rather than selling an F-150, I mean historically it was five, 10, 15,000 under sticker. You're starting to create something that's desirable enough that people are paying, not, not only buying a more premium F-150, but then they're paying over sticker.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Everybody's making more money on it. 

Matt Scott: Yeah, and, and, and same with.

Scott Brady:  I can't even imagine what some of these people's car payments are. 

Matt Scott: Because it used to be that 9 to 10%.

Scott Brady: It used to be that premium vehicles like that, they were really for the affluent. And they would, people would come in and write a check for it. But, but people do there, there's a lot of people that are rich. There's not a lot of people anymore that are wealthy. And the distinction that I put is someone that's rich makes a lot of money, but they have no cash. [00:11:00] And it used to be that wealthy people would go and buy. Rolls Royce or whatever, and they would pay cash for it because they had so much money. And now you have these rich people, people that are, have good income and they can afford a $2,000 a month payment there. 

Matt Scott: There's so many raptors and there's so many TRXs in the town that we live in. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, it's, they're everywhere. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. It, you're, you're not gonna be in, in, in most towns in the west, and I'm sure the east, you're not gonna be, your goal is to be the unique guy on the block. You're probably not gonna do it with a Raptor or a TRX anymore, but there's a reason for that. We know that these trucks are fantastic on the road. Like I'm.

Scott Brady: Shocked, shocked. 

Matt Scott: My Raptor was a 2018. They have upgraded them from them. They went from having, leaf springs in the rear to coil springs and a five link in the rear, kind of this trailing arm design. That's really cool that I don't, did they get a little bit more power, but it's, it's similar drive [00:12:00] train, a little bit more wheel travel, a little bit more refinement in the cab. And then you have the trx, which is just this. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. So let's shift to the TX and then maybe I'll give a little bit of my insights around comparison, but. I drove your trx, but I was, I was very much, I had a job to do with it that day with rack that we had on there that we were getting some photography for. And I, it was amazing. But I didn't, I didn't drive it for that reason. And plus I'm driving my buddy's truck on, so I'm not gonna be testing.

Matt Scott: Jump it.

Scott Brady: I'm not gonna be testing your car. The thing that I noticed, I just came out of the raptor. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. You had that last week. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yep. And I'm now in the TRX. The T R X is across the board. It feels more premium. It feels more super truck. It feels more powerful. It is much more comfortable on the road. It's quieter than the Raptor. The T R X, in my mind, feels like this premium, expensive super truck. [00:13:00] Whereas the Raptor felt like. A very well-engineered off-road high performance truck. 

Matt Scott: Yes. I think that the Raptor is a better, yeah, I'll say it. I, I think that the Raptor is a better off-road truck. I think that they're a little bit less precious. I think they're more wheel travel, more of an aftermarket, more aftermarket availability. Like the, the problem with the TRX is if you like to, you know, fiddle with things, is you're kind of looking at. What you're gonna get out of that platform. You're not going to get much more wheel travel. You're not really going to fit much more of a tire on there. Ford has, has this 37 package, which is like.

Scott Brady: That's what ours was. 

Matt Scott: Super. Yeah. I think the Raptor Rs all come standard with them. Super, super, super cool. It's almost a, I'll call it a three-way race. There's the Raptor R and there's the tx. The best choice out of all of them is probably the [00:14:00] standard raptor. I don't think that you necessarily need the power of these vehicles. When you're in low range, you're not using it.

Scott Brady: Not even close. 

Matt Scott: You're when you're on idle and you.

Scott Brady: You cannot use 700 horsepower. 

Matt Scott: If you want to see what the back of your truck looks like while you're still sitting in the front seat, use all 700 horsepower on these trucks. The trx, it does not have the wheel travel. To take advantage of 700 horsepower.

Scott Brady: And it's softer sprung, so that means everything up until a big event. The T R X felt better. Very comfortable off-road like cycling through washes and over bumps. 

Matt Scott: And it's a lot more active suspension I've found. 

Scott Brady: Whereas the big hits, the Raptor was like, it shocked me how good it was. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. Miss Moore's suspension travel is gonna do that and the aftermarket. The, the chassis on the Raptor has more capability in it. You know, like there, there are things that you can then go and do to a raptor to make it, I mean, a stock Raptor off-road y. There, there are, there are [00:15:00] race cars that have less horsepower and less wheel travel that have roll cages. That's, that's always been an interesting thing for me with these super trucks. Is now guys can have a. I think how, how people build trucks has changed with, with the availability of all of these factory packages. It just makes more sense to have the car payment. We live in a society now.

Scott Brady: And the warranty.

Matt Scott:  Run on credit.

Scott Brady: And the warranty and all the engineering that goes behind it. 

Matt Scott: Like you, could you? Yes. Like I remember when the after came in, oh, I could build that. I'm like, okay, cool. Wait, and now and, and now it's just easier to, to finance or write the check at the dealer or whatever your final position is. Like I don't, I don't really care about that. But a lot of people just go and like you said, they, they, they want to have the payment, they get the truck and it actually makes a lot of sense. That's frankly, I mean, that's what I do now is, yeah, you can go out and just get one of these things. You do a few little modifications. Like that's why, I mean, I want to know how many Raptor. Baja [00:16:00] design fog, pocket kits they've sold kind of thing, because that's really all that people are doing to 'em. You'll get some guys that do more, but I think that's like the Raptor crowd. I think the TRX is this grand touring pickup truck that's really capable offroad, but is so, so comfortable.

Scott Brady: It was shocking. Like, I mean, for, for those that are interested in the difference between the two, When I was driving the trx, I felt like I was in one of the finest luxury sedans. That I, I mean, I drive a lot of those too, and it was absolutely, yeah. Quiet, plush, powerful. I just did a, an hour and a half each way drive yesterday, and it was seamless. I mean, effortless, quiet, powerful. 

Matt Scott: My current daily, Is a E63s A M G wagon. It's really comfortable. I mean, if you're talking about [00:17:00] an Autobon cruiser or whatever that may be, that is the definitive car. In that segment, the TRX is quieter inside. It is more comfortable inside, cuz you just have more space. You know it is a pickup truck at the end of the day, so putting your feet up on the dash or this or that or whatever. It's just very comfortable. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, it's crazy. 

Matt Scott: It's, it has all the power you need. I mean.

Scott Brady: Oh my gosh. 

Matt Scott: It, it, yes, the wagon's faster.

Scott Brady: By how much though? Like a, a TRX is four seconds. 

Matt Scott: Four seconds. And then this one's under three. But none of that matters. I mean, it's.

Scott Brady: It's like a blink of an eye. 

Matt Scott: It, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. 

Scott Brady: Both feel incredibly powerful. The TRX feels like a Mercedes. The Raptor feels like a Volkswagen, or, well, it feels like a Ford. 

Scott Brady: It feels like an F-150. 

Matt Scott: You, you get, I mean, there's things that drive me crazy on Fords, and you still, you still get that with the Raptor. It's the, the little, I mean, I complain about it all the time, but like the, the mold seam lines everywhere on an F-150. The, the like textured [00:18:00] plastic with the leather grain in it. You know, it's, it's very, the buttons feel cheap. Everything kind of feels like, There's engineering behind it, and then like an accountant came in and just, you know, ford great engineers, even better accountants. That's, that's just how I feel with the Raptor. 

Scott Brady: But, and it doesn't feel, even though the numbers are very similar, it does not feel as powerful as the T R X and it's not as comfortable as a trx, but it does, it is a better performing vehicle at the limits in my experience. And now that I've driven both, I guess this is kind of my summary. More of as a validation of are these great overland vehicles? I think for some people they are. But for me, no, I would not consider either one of these things for a personal vehicle because I don't need something with 700 horsepower. I want something with fuel economy and range. I want something, preferably diesel. And it just, and for, so for me personally, even though. They have, they are incredible tools. They are incredible performance machines. [00:19:00] The TRX I liked a little bit better, but, yeah, it wouldn't be, wouldn't be a truck for me. Matt Scott: Yeah, I mean, I, I sold my TRX to get a prospector, prospectors, you know, in that same financial realm as some of those trucks. Prospectors a better choice if I was heading down to Baja or wanted to have a, a truck that, well, I mean, I've used these trucks. I've taken raptors everywhere. I've taken TRXs everywhere. They're really fun for me. Is it an overland truck? Yeah, for sure. Cuz you can just throw a tent in the back. And you have this factory engineered long travel, whatever. You keep it within its realm and it's, and it's pretty good for an off-road vehicle. I would still rather have the raptor for a luxury vehicle. I would rather have the trx. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. That's a great way to just to sum it up. But they're very cool and for those that have 'em, in fact, if anybody's listening and they use one of those vehicles, For their travels. We, I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, I'd love to see some photos. I'd love to see how you're using it. 

Matt Scott: People use 'em and have used 'em, and.

Scott Brady: They do.

Matt Scott: They, [00:20:00] they put up with it. 

Scott Brady: All right, so now we're gonna move into the plug-in hybrid and EV territory, and we're gonna talk about Grand Cherokee Trail Hawk four by E Wrangler, four by E Rivian, R one s, and Hummer, s u v. I think I'm gonna start with this Trail Hawk four by E, because probably for the first time in many years did I have a vehicle that completely took me by surprise. Where I came in with a. Like a fixed impression or a bias. Let's even call it like, I've been doing this for a long time. I, yeah.

Matt Scott: Grand Cherokees have always been there, but they're, they've always kinda like, always.

Scott Brady: Yeah. They're good cars. Like my, it seems like my family owns 87 of them. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. They're just a practical choice. 

Scott Brady: Yep. They, they are amazing vehicles. I just, they've just completely gone off my radar as an off-road or an overland.

Matt Scott: They've always, the Grand Cherokee has always been that like weird, like, Yeah, some Wrangler parts and some Cherokee parts will bolt onto it, but like, but the Grand Cherokee platform has just continued to get better and better and better [00:21:00] and better. And it's particularly the, the, you know, the Trailhawk four by E is like, most people listen to this podcast. Probably should drive one. 

Scott Brady: I would buy one. Yeah. It is absolutely a vehicle that I would buy. I mean, let's, let's just run down real quick through the specs. This thing does 435 horsepower, zero to 60 in five and a half seconds. It gets a combined, they call it like a mpg, MPG e between the engine and the electric in the 40 mile per gallon range. It has 30 miles of electric only, which means you do all of your little local, like where we live in Prescott. I could use electric only at one quarter of the price of filling up the fuel tank. It has 31 inch diameter tires, all terrains. 

Matt Scott: That used to be big. That doesn't sound like much now, but that used to be. It's plenty really big. 

Scott Brady: It's plenty big. Yeah, it's plenty big. It has skid plates throughout, airbag suspension with two off-road height modes, which to be clear off-Road two is used to clear [00:22:00] over something you do not drive. And off-road to it is so brutal. There's no down travel left, but if you need to get over a ledge, Put it in off-road two. Go over the obstacle and then put it back down into off-road. One center locking differential, rear locking differential low range. And this new one has a front sway bar disconnect. 

Matt Scott: That's, that was the crazy thing that surprised me with it. 

Scott Brady: It to, I didn't know it until I got into the car and I'm like, what is this magic? Like on a Jeep Rubicon where you can push the button and you gain all of this articulation and you reduce head toss this Grand Cherokee in, in off-road one mode. I mean, it flexes way more than I've seen any independent vehicle flex. And the head toss is way down. You don't get that really busy ride. You're not getting kind of tossed around the cabin. It still tows 6,000 pounds, so you're gonna tow any kind of off-road trailer. 

Matt Scott: It's like the overland, it's like the the best over. Daily driver an overlander could ever hope for. 

Scott Brady:I, It's like the one car to rule them all [00:23:00].

Matt Scott: Endorsement or whatever. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. It's like the one car. If you need to drive back and forth to work and your commute's 10 miles, you're never gonna use any fuel. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. I'm, I'm just gonna plug into your electricity now. I don't have to pay for electricity. 

Scott Brady: I said that you do. You get to plug in anywhere you want. Matt? My electricity is your electricity.

Matt Scott: Oh, thanks. Thanks buddy. 

Scott Brady: I think that this is an amazing car. I, I am. I'm literally blown away by how good it is.

Matt Scott: And it looks good. The interior quality, which is something like, It's a little stickler for interiors.

Scott Brady: And it's good.

Matt Scott: If I'm, you know, cars are expensive these days and.

Scott Brady: Okay. And that's the Cuda. That's the Cuda gra. So the Cuda gra of these Trail Hawk four by E and I did not, again, I didn't know this because the way that we got the car was a little bit. Out of order. I didn't just showed up, so I wasn't, I didn't do a lot of research. Brian McVickers drove it back from Moab and like here, all of a sudden we have this car. So I, yeah, I didn't know what it was. I didn't know anything about it. I thought we just had another Grand Cherokee. This vehicle, with all of those features, it costs $68,000. Which it still seems like a lot of money, but if you look [00:24:00] at any car today, Like we were just talking about, about Ford Mavericks that are being sold over sticker for $68,000.

Matt Scott: 48. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like crazy. Crazy. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. So you, it's a hell of a deal. 

Matt Scott: You, you, you actually figure that when the world gets back to normal, the automotive world, the dealership world, You know, that means that $68,000 msrp, that means you're paying low sixties, high fifties for that in the real world because the, the Grand Cherokee doesn't have that. Like most of these capable off-road vehicles, you're paying still 10 to $15,000 over a sticker for them. Yeah. That's where it becomes reasonable. 

Scott Brady: It does. And, and I'm not saying it's better than any of the other great SUVs out there. I'm not saying it's better than a. It's on par with a 200. It's on par with a 4runner. If you're considering some other vehicle like that, just go check this. 

Matt Scott: I think it's worth looking. 

Scott Brady: Just go check, check it out.

Matt Scott: And the four by e Drive train. Like I’ve known.

Scott Brady: I’m a fan. 

Matt Scott: I've, I've known quite a [00:25:00] few people that have had these now I've never heard them complain about reliability or having any issues.

Scott Brady: Yeah, check out the Grand Cherokee, Trailhawk four by E. It is, it's. It's one of the vehicles that has surprised me more than anything that I've driven in many years. And also check out the the, the Wrangler four by E. There's a lot of resistance to EVs within the overland space for for good reason and for I think misunderstandings. But one of the best selling. Plugin Hybrids in America is the Wrangler. 

Matt Scott: It's the best-selling electrified vehicle in America in 2022, I think. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, because it, it's kind of how people use wranglers. They don't tend to do long commutes in them. So it has about a 25 mile electric range. They, they're quick. It has 435 horsepower and then you can get it in a Rubicon. So you can have an electric vehicle, a hybrid vehicle, a gasoline only vehicle. Something with front and rear lockers and way our disconnect on 30 fives, the roof comes off. [00:26:00] 

Matt Scott: Doors come off. 

Scott Brady: It's like you can, you can see why they sell 8 billion of these things.

Matt Scott: They, they work, I see 'em all over, all over Prescott again. 

Scott Brady: Such a win.

Matt Scott: The EV thing. If you live in a city, EV's probably ready for you now. Yeah. Where we live, kind of rural, northern Arizona. You know, EVs are fine for around town, but I don't know.

Scott Brady: It's a little bit of a challenge.

Matt Scott: It's, it's a little bit bit of a challenge.

Scott Brady: It's an infrastructure issue. Although Prescott just got its first supercharger, Yavapai College.

Matt Scott: Okay. Okay, cool. So we we're up from one charger with two cables at the Hilton Garden Inn. 

Scott Brady: We should talk about the Rivian R one s because, there's actually, I don't, there's not a lot that I kind of wanna riff on with this car, other than it's not only the best electric S U V I've ever tested. It's one of the best SUVs I've ever tested. And this is for me personally. One of my most favorite cars that I've ever owned was a 2007 Range Rover Mark [00:27:00] three. And I loved everything about that car. While I owned it, it was very reliable. It was one of the most beautiful, capable, the broadest spectrum of attributes that I have ever had in a vehicle that I owned. The R one s most closely matches that experience. 

Matt Scott: The right size? 

Scott Brady: Yes. 

Matt Scott: Like it's that tundra, first gen, tundra size in the pickup truck and, and, and Mark three Range Rover and the suv. 

Scott Brady: It's incredibly fast. 3.2 seconds, zero to sixty, 800 and something horsepower. 300 and something mile range airbag suspension, 34 inch allterrains from the factory.

Matt Scott: It's huge. And the ground clearance, like when, when we had that one, I, I, I sat underneath it.

Scott Brady: 15 inches of ground clearance. 

Matt Scott: I'm like, I'm like nearly sitting. It's not like I'm like trying to get underneath it. I'm like, Oh, I'm underneath it like, oh, I can kind of sit up here like, you drive behind a rivian and it just, the architecture of the suspension looks purpose built.

Scott Brady: It's really good. It's really good off-road. The ev, [00:28:00] all EVs have the same issue, which is this kind of low speed climbing over big rocks and ledges. We've talked about that in the past, but, and the rivian is not exempt from that, but it is an incredibly fine automobile. It's beautifully designed. It's so minimalist, which is just like, makes me in such a happy place.

Matt Scott: So we, we disagree a little bit on that. Like, I know. I really like it, but I.

Scott Brady: I love the minimalist. 

Matt Scott: I want some damn buttons. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. I love the, it's just so, yeah. Minimalist and like, reducted, you know, reductionist. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. So, Some of it, some of the interior feels a little cheap to me because I'm thinking startup didn't mean to design the buttons, put it in the screen. It's a simple solution. I get it. But Rivian also are not, they're an expensive vehicle. 

Scott Brady: They’re not crazy expensive.

Matt Scott: But they're not as expensive as, you'd actually think. You know, I sold, I sold my aev Prospector xl, and I'm one feeling dumb about it because I've now realized how expensive trucks have become. Even though it was only one year, the cost of a pickup truck has gone up [00:29:00] about 20%. From my actual, somebody who buys a lot of vehicles, it feels 20% more expensive, but the rivian just aren't, you know, you can get a Rivian, R one T or R one s effectively new. So if you go to the website and you buy one, I think they're somewhere between six to 12 months on a, on a delay.

Scott Brady: Double that. 

Matt Scott: Yeah, probably. But there's so many people that have basically just bought allocations to flip them that in R one T you're looking in the 80 to 90 range in the R one s being a little bit more, a little newer and fewer of them on the market. You're looking right around a hundred. You, you can't get an F two 50 for that. You can't get a raptor for that. You can.

Scott Brady: This is faster than a raptor. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. You can barely get a standard. You're basically competing with regular pickup trucks. Regular pickup trucks might be more expensive at this point. If you're comparing speed and power and torque and all of that kind of stuff. It's, it's, it's an interesting, it's, it's [00:30:00] very interesting right now. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. And the rivian are, are amazing. And the, one of the things that I love about the company is that it is, it is a startup filled with incredibly passionate people that truly believe in their product. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. They really do.

Scott Brady: I mean, they've worked with Bill Burke. They really care about the off-road performance. And then they're gonna have, they're gonna come out with this dual motor model and they're gonna come out with some things that I think will be even make them even more appealing. But if you're looking at a electric S U V.

Matt Scott: And you're not looking at the rivian.

Scott Brady: Yeah, it's kind of amazing.

Matt Scott: So I think, I do think, you know, we, we keep getting little, little teaser tidbits of the all electric G wagon, which really, really excites me, but, Gee, what's the markup gonna be on those? 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Incredible. 

Matt Scott: I mean G 63 s.

Scott Brady: You have to have your own like nuclear power plant next to the house. 

Matt Scott: Unless it's, unless it's some kind of, you know, it's Mercedes, their first car was electric. Like, I mean, the first car Mercedes made. Electric, they're now getting back into electric. [00:31:00] We had the EQe.

Scott Brady: EQs Yeah. 

Matt Scott: EQ s and this isn't really a, this isn't an overlander, this isn't really a grand tour, but it's important to get these new vehicles in to just compare to what they are to others.

Scott Brady: Yeah. You know, learn the new technology. It's important to us. 

Matt Scott: Like, the reason I bring it up is, I, I think the rivian is really cool. I do not like how it drives, it, it drives like a golf cart to me. Once you get past the, the, you know, the kind of what feels like a one trick pony of the instant power and the launch and, and that kind of stuff, the one pedal thing drives me crazy.

Scott Brady: Yeah, it would be nice because it's.

Matt Scott: If you get any kind of motion sickness as a person, which, however this works out, I do. You're always kind of like it. Any change in throttle. And you're, you kind of get this like, feels like a car at 60 mile an hour in third gear. 

Scott Brady: It would be nice if they had a way to reduce that.

Matt Scott: Yeah. And I don't think that it's that exciting to, well it's exciting to drive cuz it's [00:32:00] fast. I don't think that it's a good experience. But with the Mercedes, I loved how that car drove, it drives like a car that happens to be electric. It is not.

Scott Brady: You would never know that It was.

Matt Scott: You would, you would never know. Yeah. It, it has. The option of the one pedal thing, but if you're not crazy on that, Which, which, I mean, I get why they're kind of doing it, but it just.

Scott Brady: I like it. I just know how to drive, like with one pedal.

Matt Scott: You know, it's all this weird, this weird thing and I don't like it, but maybe I'll get used to it.

Scott Brady: But I do like it. 

Matt Scott: Yeah, I do like it. Yeah. So there you go. I, I think the eq s.

Scott Brady: I prefer it actually. 

Matt Scott: It just felt like a more of a traditional car. 

Scott Brady: Totally. But it was the only thing I didn't, and we'll talk about the EQs in another episode.

Matt Scott: a little bit more was ugly. It was not so ugly 

Scott Brady: From the front. It was handsome, but from any other angle. It was not. And then like what is the one thing about an electric vehicle that makes it totally unique? The frunk. Yeah. And that car did not have a frunk. 

Matt Scott: It did not. I didn't open the.

Scott Brady: It was so [00:33:00] sad. 

Matt Scott: Like it's like it design-wise. It was just, yeah.

Scott Brady: It was Bulbus. It was very Eggy. 

Matt Scott: It was a, it was a Mazda CX nine.

Scott Brady: Again from the front I thought it was handsome. But any other angle, it was pretty egg shaped. Which is also what made it. Incredibly quiet and.

Matt Scott: Aerodynamic. 

Scott Brady: Aerodynamic. I mean, and so there's reason.

Matt Scott: Serene to drive. 

Scott Brady: Serene to drive. Absolutely. 

Matt Scott: I have those little pillows for your head. 

Scott Brady: I know. It's crazy.

Matt Scott: But important to drive that stuff just to see how it positions.

Scott Brady: And learn these new technologies cuz it's important to us, cuz we know it's changing. Things are changing. People are gonna be buying them. So the other electric s u v that we drove was the Hummer, s u v, which the Hummer, s u v is it's, it's like driving any other, like a TRX or any other kind of of vehicle in the sense that it has a regular shifter. You can turn off the one pedal drive. It drives very, very normal. I mean, it drives like a normal vehicle, and because it has the rear steer, it drives more [00:34:00] compact than it actually is. Yeah, it's incredibly fast. 3.5 seconds, zero to 60 for that one under the launch conditions, and it looks a lot better than the truck. The biggest complaint I had with the Hummer truck is I just don't care for that kind of vestige bed with the weird angle. To it. I, I just don't think it made the truck very handsome. Whereas the s u v in my mind is a lot more attractive looking vehicle. 

Matt Scott: It, I'm so impressed with so much that GM is doing right now, and then this Hummer thing comes out and it's like, oh God, it's bad, let it die1

Scott Brady: But you know what's gonna happen though, is that we're gonna end up with a Yukon.  ATfour. Electric and it's gonna look and it'll look great.

Matt Scott: It'll be great.

Scott Brady: And it'll be great. So it is a very comfortable vehicle to drive. Yeah. It's, it's, it's incredibly spacious on the inside. So the actual driving experience, the actual like being, cuz Paula, our producer, was with me when we went to, to California to [00:35:00] test the vehicles.

She shot all the video, she drove it some, I drove it some. I got to be the passenger. It was just a very comfortable vehicle to be in. A lot of space. Very open and roomy, and it has tons of power. 35 inch diameter tires with long travel, four corner independent airbag suspension. It ends up being like a really nice car to drive for long distance.

Matt Scott: I think that there's a lot of impressive engineering that has gone into that car. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, but there's a couple things that are a problem. The, the ground clearance is much less than the rivian. It, it has this deceptively low outside, low, low quarter panel that you, because of the way they did the, the rock sliders, it kind of obscures the fact that the chassis is much lower than the sliders. And that's, cuz that's where all the batteries are. So in the highest suspension modes, the breakover is fine, but in a lot of other cases it's low. In the center. And that also makes it [00:36:00] incredibly flat steering. It's very low center of gravity, but, That's one of the things that I noticed is it's fairly low compared to like the Rivian, for example. And then I think it's also just that overall size. It's a very, very big vehicle. Thank goodness it has four wheel steering. So the four wheel steering.

Matt Scott: Four wheel steering's, a game changer. And I think that we're gonna start seeing that on more off-road vehicles. You don't always just have to crawl over something, you can also drive around it.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And that works great for that. The crab mode's fun. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. There's a lot of very interesting engineering with that.

Scott Brady: Watts of freedom is fun. There's just, there's lots of thing. It's a fun vehicle. It's definitely super car. Super trucky. On the EV side. And I think what it's, what, what it allowed for GM to do is to fund the development of all of these systems we're gonna see in vehicles that are a little more practical.

Matt Scott: The idea of a Of a Yukon at four x. That is, has all of that technology. 

Scott Brady: Sounds amazing. [00:37:00] Yeah. Sounds great. 

Matt Scott: That that sounds great. Yeah. My, my qualms are purely of a styling and reputational issue. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. It's, it's pretty tough to unwind the H two legacy. It's pretty tough to unwind that so.

Matt Scott:  Well, yeah. But they have also this amazing legacy with the H one and the H three was a, a, you know.

Scott Brady: Mch better car just came too late. The Hummer, s u v is very interesting, very expensive, very obscure, unique styling. Yeah. So let's move on from the Hummer, s u v to the Defender one 30 I, I have such incredible respect for the Land Rover brand, and it all started for me from Land Rover. None of this for me would've happened if it wasn't for that cover of a four-Wheel Drive magazine, but the Camel trophy on it. And I've owned a lot of classic Land Rovers. I've driven Land Rovers around the world, and I have such. Just love, I wouldn't even say.

Matt Scott: Oh, love for the brand. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, love for the brand. I mean, there's really not, I wouldn't say it's respect.

Matt Scott: And the nicest people. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. [00:38:00]They're just in, yeah. Love for the brand. I just have just true affection for it. In recent years, I have not found that any of the modern land, they're all great cars. That's to be clear, but none of them have elicited that same passion for me or even the consideration of buying one until the defender one 30.

Matt Scott: Interesting. It's kind of a car that nobody really asked for. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. But it's also the one that they needed to sell the one 10. It is fairly space constrained on the inside and it has more of a departure angle than you need for a vehicle of that kind. Like how you would use a really nice. Defender is not, doesn't require a, like a 45 degree departure angle. Yeah. I like the fact that the, the one 30 has more space in the rear. I also like how it balances out the appearance of the vehicle. Some people don't care for that as much as I do, but it actually reminds me, like if we look at the defender one 10 behind us, it actually has sheet metal behind the rear tire. Like there's actually some material there, [00:39:00] which is not the case for the one 10, the modern or the current model. One 10. It's this very abbreviated, it looks more like a defender. 90 did a classic defender. 90 did. Whereas the one 10 always had some space behind it. So now the one 30 looks reminiscent to me of the amount of space behind after the rear axle. In a classic one 10. It actually drives a little bit more balanced on the trail. The rear of the one 10 is. Prone to popping up kind of unexpectedly or even a little bit more aggressively. Like we experienced that even a little bit on benzo's past. Matt Scott: Yeah, I remember that.

Scott Brady: Remember the rear would but pop up.

Matt Scott: It was the on that it was the left rear. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. The one 30 because it has a little bit more weight over the back. It very much is a little bit more and it settles that movement down. Cuz there's a little bit more weight aft of the rear axle. It has a lot more space. You can buy it as a five passenger model next year. So you end up with this totally load, flat load floor, you can sleep inside the [00:40:00] vehicle. I've gone onto the builder and I'm like, what does it take to build out one of these things? 

Matt Scott: I always, I always look at building a defender. Same with you. Like I, I have a huge admiration for the brand. The defender is a lovely vehicle.

Scott Brady: It really is. 

Matt Scott: I think it is one of, like, as far as interiors go, it's one of my favorite interiors ever put into a vehicle. And it's, it's because they have the, the, that defender dash where you, you get in your pocket knife, your wallet, your phone, whatever. You just like throw it in front of you. And then you go on with your day and it's, it's, it's really great. But there's always a butt with Land Rover. And do I personally trust one, knowing that I live an hour and a half, two hours from the closest Land Rover a hundred miles from the closest Land Rover dealer. That's.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And how much of that do you feel is reputation of, let's call it a 2001 discovery two, or how much of that you feel is, is actually an issue with the current vehicles?

Matt Scott: It's probably all of the above. Like I, I know that there have [00:41:00] been quality problems with the new, the new defender. 

Scott Brady: They are made in a, in a new manufacturing plant. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. There was also a lot going on at that time. I mean, You know, we got there. They were ramping up as Covid was starting. You know, not to use Covid as an excuse necessarily, but the automotive world got turned on its head it with supply chains. So I always look at 'em, but anybody that listens to podcasts know that I don't really keep things for that long. So I'm really interested in a year at like a certified pre-owned defender. One 10. 

Scott Brady: There you go. And then perfect. 

Matt Scott: Because they'll be. 

Scott Brady: Enjoy it for a year.

Matt Scott: Instead of them being. 90 grand or a hundred grand and really hard to get, they're gonna be 45 grand.

Scott Brady: Or 55 even.

Matt Scott: Or 50. Yeah. Like they're not. And you're still. I have the same potential for issue. I don't know. I think that they're really cool. I think that they're really capable. I think they have a lot of features that are in 'em that are really nice. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, I like the one 30. Yeah. And the, my only disappointment, in fact, this is the only [00:42:00] disappointment that I have in the car, is that you can't put an 18 on it. Cuz it comes only with the six cylinder, or by the time that we, this goes live, it'll also be available with a v8, which is a very nice turn. 

Matt Scott: And that gets the bigger brakes, which means you're, there's no off-road 19 inch tires. So that means you're at a 20.

Scott Brady: You're at a 20. And that it's a mistake. It like every manufacturer, if you're listening to this podcast, it is a mistake. The Hummer at 10,000 pounds. So I'm gonna give a compliment to the Hummer. The Hummer is 10,000 pounds. Is the truck almost? It has an 18 inch wheel. Yeah. If you can stop a 10,000 pound electric truck, you can stop a defender with an 18 inch wheel. You can put the brake package on there that allows you to fit. The wheel diameter that is appropriate for the vehicle's intention. The one 10 is designed to be an adventure vehicle. It's designed to be an off-road vehicle, even if it's not used in extreme terrain, if you take 'em in the [00:43:00] sand, you can't air down low enough. If you get into snow, you cannot air down low enough. There's not enough locations. 

Matt Scott: Those decisions, they end up being, they, they never end up being in the consideration set. For what the defender was supposed to be.

Scott Brady: But they did everything else. They give it a rear locker. Yeah, they give it crossed axle air suspension with good articulation. I just drove one in the Arabian Desert. Big dunes trails, long distances, driving around the country. And I liked the car a lot. My big disappointment. Is the 20 inch wheel, it is not appropriate for the kind of driving. 

Matt Scott: Yeah, I'll, I'll deal with it on a Range Rover, but if you're gonna throw that defender nameplate on it, like.

Scott Brady: Give us an 18 inch wheel it's that simple. 

Matt Scott: Which you can get on the one 10, right? 

Scott Brady: You can. That's right. You just have to get the four cylinder drive train. We're gonna do rapid fire. So AT four X. We had the A T four X Sierra for a while. Incredible half. 

Matt Scott: Is that a newer generation than one you have? 

Scott Brady: Yeah, it is. Exactly. So it [00:44:00] is newer generation, brand new interior, very luxurious. Rear locker, front locker. Gets rid of that. Terrible. G 80 mechanical locker out of the rear, 33 inch diameter tires, Multimatic suspension. Rock sliders. And now they have an a e V addition in the A T four X, which gives you a e v bumpers, front and rear, and a bunch of other cool things and a larger diameter tire. So these are, these are very cool trucks. I would've never imagined five years ago that GM would have the most capable half-ton pickup sold. 

Matt Scott: Oh, I, I would never, if, if somebody was like in the year 2000, I dunno, when you got that 1 21 in the year 2021, Scott Brady is going to buy a GM product. I would be like.

Scott Brady: I would've never thought it. Yeah, I would've never thought it, but it was, I mean, my truck has been fantastic. I love the diesel. 

Matt Scott: Super, super quiet inside.

Scott Brady: And now you can get the AT four X aev Sierra with all of the off-road goodies, and you can now get the three liter diesel again. So it's just like, like you can hear the [00:45:00] cherubs singing. It's a really amazing truck. The only downside, again, is payload. You can load those things up to the point where you get pretty low on the payload number. So you get really limited around. Truck campers and. The, the 1500 is not warrantied for a truck camper, so you're kind of making a personal decision, like if you do some damage to the bed or whatever 

You're outta warranty on that, but amazing trucks, it's incredible to see what, what they're doing with that. Real quick, the Maverick Tremor, I'm.

Matt Scott: I love the Maverick. 

Scott Brady: I'm a huge fanboy of the Maverick. They, you can buy a four cylinder hybrid front wheel drive model for about 24,000 bucks. If you could find one. They get 40 miles to the gallon. You have a, it's, you have a mini truck. We don't have mini trucks anymore. 

Matt Scott: It's a perfectly sized truck to put your mulch and your.

Scott Brady: Or your mountain bike. 

Matt Scott: Or your mountain bike or whatever. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Or even a motorcycle in the back. The Maverick is just super cool. And the tremor gives it the drive train of the Bronco sport. So you've got this.

Matt Scott: Oh, cool. Kind of boogie. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, kind of a locker in the rear. [00:46:00] They call it a locker. You actually have a locker button, but it, it isn't, It doesn't give you a mechanical locker. 

Matt Scott: A hundred percent. 

Scott Brady: Yes, that's right. And then it has a center differential lock. It's got a larger diameter tire and about a one inch lift. Super fun to drive. I love driving 'em. I just, I'm a huge fanboy of the maverick. Yeah. I love the fact that we can buy a mini truck again. Go fast. Did a cool one where they, they bought the truck and put the camper on there for less than 30 grand for a brand new vehicle. With a Go Ft camper. That, that's just, to me, that's super fun. 

Matt Scott: Sound like a 30 inch tire? 

Scott Brady: Yep. 30 inch tire. Little all terrain, little falcon. Yeah. Wild peak terrain.

Matt Scott: It's such, it's such an interesting that that whole setup with the go fast is such an interesting thing because it's. You're doing that for Subaru money. And I, I will tell you, the quality of the interior of the Maverick at low twenties is the same interior quality as a Raptor. In the eighties to nineties. So it presents this, very good value for money, [00:47:00] but I think it's the best. Product in Ford's range. And I knew that it took Kones to, 

Scott Brady: They cannot make enough of them.

Matt Scott: Yeah. It took Kones to put that in there cuz you're like, oh, people want bigger, bigger, more power, whatever, or we actually want this. 

Scott Brady: But that's what they did. They, they released a mini truck. 

Matt Scott: Bravo. Bravo Ford. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, totally. It's such.

Matt Scott: Rarely do I say Bravo Ford. 

Scott Brady: Well, it's an awesome, awesome vehicle. And then the last thing is a little quick update on the Grenadier. I've had a chance to now spend another week in the grenadier, in, in, in North American spec unit rock crawling, much higher speeds in the sand. Hill climbs. I kind of had the vehicle to do whatever I wanted with it just keeps getting more and more impressive to me. It's important to note that the drive train is well-balanced to the intention of the vehicle, but it's not. Overly powerful. Like we've been having so many powerful vehicles in the marketplace now. In my mind it feels very well balanced to the vehicle. I like the seating position. The lockers engage [00:48:00] and disengage well. The traction control system works well. The tire size and the suspension dynamics are all really well balanced to the vehicle. So now that I've had some time to kind of have it in the wild, yeah, I like it even more than the first time I drove it. So the Grenadier keeps getting better and better. And it's getting closer and closer to being available. So by the time this goes live, there's a chance that we're gonna have some, or see some important announcements from Ineos.

Matt Scott: I'm excited. I think, I think it's, it's a return to purpose for, like you said, there's a lot of 700 horsepower pickup trucks out there now. For, you know, I guess there's only two, but you know the point.

Scott Brady: Yeah. But this, this is built for over landing. And, and in fact, there's a little plaque on the front of the truck and it's one of my favorite things about it. Because it shows the intention, it's the mission statement of the business built on purpose. Yeah. It is built on purpose to go around the world. It's built on purpose. To go down to Panama. Yeah, it's built to do those things. 

Matt Scott: I'm, I'm so excited for it.

Scott Brady: And we get to buy one before we [00:49:00] know it. It's just awesome. So, well, thanks Matt. That's our mashup. Wow. Thanks. We'll have to do another episode just on the vehicles that you've bought and sold. So yeah, Thanks Matt.

Matt Scott: See ya. 

Scott Brady: All right, we'll talk to you all next time.