Old School Cool: The Classic Kit of Overlanding
Show Notes for Podcast #165
Scott Brady and Matt Scott discuss era appropriate vehicle modifications, classic 4wds, and even investing in collector models. Most overlanders appreciate the simple and vintage travel equipment, including canvas slingback chairs or a Series Land Rover. They are not suggesting that classic overland gear is better, but it often times puts a bigger smile on your face.
Scott is the publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and includes three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady
Matthew is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world's most remote places by 4WD and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. He is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore
Scott Brady: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host Scott Brady and I feel like right now I should be doing this entire introduction in an English accent because I'm wearing a pith helmet. Now why am I wearing a pith helmet? I'm wearing a pith helmet because Matt Scott and I are going to start to talk about old school cool.
So we're going to talk about Classic overland gear. We're going to talk about period correct vehicle modifications. We're going to really kind of do a deep dive into something that is just a lot of fun. So this is not travel advice. We're not suggesting that people throw their smartphone out the window.
Although I think about doing that daily, but we are talking about using cool old gear to kind of reconnect with that heritage, with that legacy of travel and learning about those old technologies and those old ways of doing things. In a way that brings us a lot of joy. So please enjoy my conversation with Matt Scott on old school.
Cool. [00:01:00] This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in 2006 with the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews, along with the most stunning adventures and photography, we care deeply about the countries and cultures we visit.
And share our experiences freely with our readers. We also have zero advertorial policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews. By subscribing to Overland Journal, You're helping to support our employee owned and veteran owned publication. Your support also provides resources and funding for content like you are watching or listening to right now.
You can subscribe directly on our website at overlandjournal. com All right, Matt. So we've [00:02:00] got old school cool. Yeah,
Matt Scott: we're, we're talking about doing things the right way. I'm
Scott Brady: going to see how long, how long I can balance this pith helmet. Yeah. If you're not on my, if you're not on my
Matt Scott: headphones watching it, this will make no sense to you, but Scott is balancing a pith helmet on top of his headphones.
Scott Brady: We got talking about this idea of period correct vehicles, which we're going to talk about today. Cause there's, I think there's a lot of merit. Yeah. To that, but then also all of these other things that are kind of steeped in adventure travel lore, like, like things a lot of us still get excited about, like paper maps or, or hardcover bound books or analog watches, things like that, that I think a lot of people have appreciation for.
I think the
Matt Scott: analog watch is a, is a great way, I mean, you're, you're wearing your, your Speedmaster. I've got my little garment and that's the best way to put it is. There, there are all of these modern accessories that make life on the road or overlanding or four wheel drive travel like so much easier.
They do. But I don't know if it necessarily makes things
Scott Brady: [00:03:00] better. Yeah. Sometimes they do. I think it's, it's like any of the, especially if you look at the fact that the modern human is having to encounter all of these addictive. at such a rapid rate. You have these psychologists that that's their job to make whatever version of social media that you're on as addictive as addictive as possible.
And it's the same thing with electronics. If, if we just got back to, if we exercised every single day, reliably, we probably wouldn't need. any kind of electronic device to tell us that we're feeling better. But it is something that helps us get the process started. And oftentimes like, well, if I was an elite athlete, athlete, which I'm not, then, then that stuff would probably be more useful.
What we're talking about now is taking some joy in the analog. Taking some joy in, I'm totally going to lose this bit home. It's like barely, barely,
Matt Scott: We're now accepting
Scott Brady: bets. I know we're going to see, we're going to see how long this thing, actually, I'm going to get [00:04:00] animated at some point. They just go, it's going to go flying.
But I do think starting with the analog watch is an interesting idea. You and I both have a bunch of analog watches. The one that I love the most is, is my dad's Seiko. And it was, it was a Seiko. It was, it's called the Pogue. It's basically a, it's a chronometer. It's, it's an old watch that he bought when he was in the air force in Thailand.
One day he's like, Hey Scott, I got this old watch you might be interested in. And it's like any watch collector when their dad says that it's like, what is going to, cause you have no idea like what it's going to be. It could be like an old crappy Casio or like you have no idea. And he pulls out this very rare Seiko, this very cool old Seiko that Now I get to wear, which is awesome, which is awesome.
I wouldn't expect
Matt Scott: any less from your dad.
Scott Brady: Yeah, totally. And then like right now I'm, you know, I'm wearing this, this Speedmaster from, from Omega. So that's, I'm going to take the hat off [00:05:00] because it's totally going to, go cascading down in some wrong direction. The Speedmaster is an interesting one because it was the first watch that was certified for space travel.
It has nothing to do with the fact that this watch is a great watch. For some technical reason, other than at the time it was technically superior for space travel. But today I like to wear it because it brings that history with it. It brings, I have to wind it every morning. That's what I
Matt Scott: love about my Speedmaster is like, it's the winding, like that's what makes it kind of unique and addictive because it's that fidget spinner.
Scott Brady: It's the original fidget spinner, but it's also like, I'm not an astronaut. I'm not even a pilot, but. I have such respect for those trap for those, those astronauts, for the cosmonauts, for all of those people who took these huge risks to push the limits of exploration. And I get to wear a small piece of that.
And for someone else, it might be a Rolex Explorer, like that was worn [00:06:00] by Sir Edmund Hillary when he made the first ascent of Everest. So there are all of these things that are analog that are, I think that are interesting and they can add a lot of value to our life or a lot of pleasure. You had a really good disclaimer, which I think is important for us to talk about in the beginning.
Matt Scott: is not travel advice, right? We're going to file this one under overland class or no, not overland classifieds under overland.
Scott Brady: Classic overlanding, maybe. Overland lifestyle, overland lifestyle,
Matt Scott: overland lifestyle podcast. And yeah, I mean, I think for me, I just go back to how amazing four wheel drives have become in, in let's say the last 10 years, what it was at 2007, we had the JK for example, and all of a sudden you had something that went down the road as fast as you wanted, went over as far as an overlander is concerned.
Went over anything was pretty reliable. Got decent gas watch, and it's just gotten better and better. Like you look at the jail, you look at the new [00:07:00] Grenadier, you look at the, you know, the stuff Toyota's doing, you look at the new two 50 Land Cruiser. So these huge, but then you look at like, it's not really an overland truck, but you look at like the Raptor or the TRX and you see how far and how fast things can go.
And I guess what maybe started this whole thing for me is it just, it's just become so easy. You know, like I, I go on my phone, I have Gaia on my phone. I know exactly where I am. I make the route or the track beforehand. I follow it. I have no mechanical issues. The car doesn't overheat. I just kind of drive.
Scott Brady: You're set at the, like a perfect 70 degree interior
Matt Scott: temperature seats are on part of camping. Part of overlanding. I've been part of a lot of this. You know, outdoor pursuit is being a little bit uncomfortable and we're meant
Scott Brady: to as humans. It's, it's how, if you think about that, we don't need to go into specific time frames because everybody has a different opinion of that.
But if you go with eons, As a timeframe for eons, human beings [00:08:00] have been uncomfortable pretty much all of the time. So I think that modernity has created this condition where I think a lot of people are unhappy because they're not being tested. They're not being challenged. Yeah. So drive an old Land Rover.
Matt Scott: I look at this Land Rover that's, that's behind us and things like that just become more. Appealing to me lately because you're so cocooned in comfort, I mean, particularly, you know, we travel in an earthroamer now and, Oh, it's, I want to sleep at 68 degrees. You press the button for the AC, you turn the Starlink on and you're falling asleep to 90s sitcoms.
Like it's almost too easy, you know, and people that listen to know that I'm into kind of Classic cars and the kind of collector car space, I kind of hang out in that world. And there's this whole idea of, you know, vehicles being period correct. You know, the restomod thing was definitely a craze, you know, restomod is a term I, I use lightly, I guess, putting disc brakes on your car, like go for it, you know, probably a good, you know, you know, [00:09:00] getting rid of points and getting an electronic distributor.
Yeah. It's just going to make it better. The idea and it really sunk in when I was just at Goodwood Revival is this idea of things kind of being in period and actually how important it is. Yeah. You know, we, we look at this defender and that's behind us down to the, the correct steel wheels, the safety devices, brush guard, the Michelin XCLs.
Scott Brady: the Ramsey worm drive winch.
Matt Scott: Yeah. You know, the defender to me is, is a great example. Like this to me is what a defender should be. Sorry, that was super winch. Super winch. The defender to me should be like, you can overbuild these things. You can really make them terrible. Like you see a lot of these vehicles that come out of the UK and they've got the You know, the quilted northern cross stitched ply, weird seats and door panels on Alcantara and they've got these like terrible wheels on them and these huge massive tires.
That is never what the Defender was meant to be. Like, you're missing the point. [00:10:00] Like the Defender is meant to be a bit of a tractor. Yeah. It was. Yeah. It's something that you get in Chelsea tractor. Yeah. It's something that you get in and it brings you back to a time. Yeah. And I think that that's becoming a little bit more important in the way that, you know, people will build a period, correct.
Nine 11 down to the bias ply tires that it used to race. Yeah. Let's have that same experience on the four-wheel
Scott Brady: drive side. And for me, when I drive the defender, there's a lot. Of things that I, I notice, I notice that I'm not as easily distracted. I'm, I mean, I've already gotten rid of my smartphone while I'm on the domestic side of, of things.
I don't, don't use a smartphone anymore, but I don't find this compulsion to check my phone. I don't even have a way to charge the phone. There's not only not a cigarette lighter. There's not a radio with a touch screen to plug it in to have your podcast. I mean, there is nothing in the car that connects to modern electronics at all.
There's no OBD2. It [00:11:00] is all 100 percent analog. And because it's a manual transmission, I'm shifting the, the windows may not even go up. So I'm whatever the temperature is outside. That's where, that's what you're doing. Exactly. I'm driving the car and every single time I do it now, it doesn't mean that I want to drive the thing to Seattle.
Like would I, of course, but like, like there are better choices for like getting work done. But sometimes. It feels really good to disconnect from all of that and just enjoy something that is classic.
Matt Scott: Obviously different periods. But you know, I look at the AEV LJ that I have and I love that car. And I love getting into it.
You know, for me, that is literally 2006. I know that that's not vintage, but we're not really talking about vintage. We're coming up on 20
Scott Brady: years though, Matt. It's crazy. We're
Matt Scott: talking about things being era appropriate. And like that car came out when I was. Yeah. That was, if I had, I mean, I didn't have posters on my walls, but if I did
Scott Brady: [00:12:00] 2006, you were 16.
So that was the year we started Overland Journal
Matt Scott: and then I came and worked for you like a couple of years later. You did. I'm kind of what I'm kind of trying to get it as like, there's an emotion. That's nice. That's a disconnect in that car for me that every modification that is on that. It's period correct.
It's all the correct AEV parts from the AEV big brake kit to the nth degree suspension. Everything is the dream of 2006. Yeah, it was. There's a lot of people that are looking at this like, Oh, that was just yesterday. I'm like, yeah, but I'm, I'm younger than you. So get over it. But to me, it's like, so. To you, it is classic.
Yeah. There's no, there's no touchscreen. You know, it still has like a regular radio. It's like, kind of like, you know, the little green letters that tells you that, you know, the number of the station, there's no crazy interior lighting, like modern Jeeps, it's still drives like a Jeep, you know, it's got a nice V8, so it has some power, but.
I haven't gotten rid of my smartphone, but I have like a little Bluetooth adapter that streams it by FM radio. And I have like on Apple music, like [00:13:00] 2006 rocket or something. And it just kind of takes me to this period. And, you know, I think, but maybe that's
Scott Brady: what it is. I mean, now that you're saying that, like that was the car that you.
Aspired to when you were 16 and I was a few years older, but like 18 is when I first came in contact with the camel trophy and I just remember being completely wide eyed and what's the car that I'm driving is a defender. It's the vehicle that, that. I guess maybe connects in with that first spark of the possibility of adventure.
And I suspect that many that are listening have the same, and I know Marcos who I have, have the defender with, it's the same for him. It's like, it's the car that he looks back at and is realizing like that was. Yeah. Like,
Matt Scott: I'll get people, you know, I, I've become very particular with modifications on cars.
Scott Brady: Well, like with the super duty,
Matt Scott: that's interesting. So I have this I have this seven three, 2000 F [00:14:00] two 50 Bruce Dorn that
Scott Brady: is 22 years old, 23 years
Matt Scott: old now. Yeah. That's crazy. Bruce Dorn bought it new. You, you can listen to his interviews. He's a dear friend of both of ours. And I grew up racing little sprint cars and go karts and that kind of stuff and traveled all over the country with my dad and he had an excursion, but, and I remember sitting in the
Scott Brady: front seat.
Matt Scott: no difference. No difference. So. I, I remember like putting my feet like in the little, the little dip of the door by the mirror. Yeah. And my Earth Roamer has, it's a 2011, but same, you know, really it's the same body style. Sure. There were updates to it, but it's so like important to me. It's the feeling that I get in, in this seven, three, it, it has to be correct.
Now, the only thing that I haven't abided by is, is he had like a little car play head unit in there. Yeah. I've kept that in there. So, you know, I'm not, it's, it's not a hundred percent, but you tow your, you
Scott Brady: tow your race car with it. You're you got long.
Matt Scott: Yeah. It's practical. Yeah. [00:15:00] You
Scott Brady: have hours on the road.
You need to be able to conduct phone calls. It's
Matt Scott: got the Shieldman seats, which I know are a newer thing in the U S since Toby started importing them. But they're very era appropriate for that car. Totally. You know, I put an ARB bumper on like the deluxe bumper. Yeah. And I love the way that like anything else on that, on that car to me just looks wrong.
It's got the Ford Australia snorkel. You know, I found. These new old stock IPF lights and the name of them model is, is, is escaping me, but they actually have like a high and a low setting and they're massive. They're like nine inches. Sure. But they have like the plastic grills. I mean, they're, they're perfect for the car.
And as I go through this, everything that I'm kind of doing, like I'm trying to keep it in period, you know, I think, I think it just goes back to kind of things being fit for purpose and thinking of the era the vehicle was. You know, the two thousands are a little, a little weird. You know, they're, they're kind of considered these young timer collector cars.
And [00:16:00] I don't think that like the seven three is a collector car. I would say it is, but it's, you
Scott Brady: know, like there's my dad's seven, three super duty. His is like, it
Matt Scott: is totally stocked, but it's actually way cooler because it's totally, it's like you either have to have things totally stock when it gets old or it has to be modified in the correct way.
Sure. You know, if you, if anything else is kind of, I don't know, it's not, it's not my style, you know, I think that,
Scott Brady: and my dad bought that brand new in 1999.
Matt Scott: Yeah, I think that there's exceptions to the rule. Let's think of like Jonathan Ward with the icon FJs. They have LED lights and the, you know, more modern wheels and brakes and interiors, but it's, it's considered as an entire package.
Oh, for sure. And he's a designer. He's doing it right.
Scott Brady: And it's what he's trying. It's what he's trying to achieve it. Whereas you can tell when you look at some of these defenders, it's trying to make the car something it's not. Yeah. [00:17:00] And these are old
Matt Scott: vehicles. Well, and there's just so many like defenders that come out of the UK that it's just like.
How much money can we sell this for in America? You know, it's a, it's a challenge to keep things aesthetically correct. Yeah. But like when in doubt, just don't do
Scott Brady: it. Don't do anything. And I think, I think that's maybe the lesson in a lot of this classic kit. Is that, I mean, we've got some things here on the table.
Like we have a sun compass from World War II. It took me years and years and years to finally find one. But the idea that with a great deal of precision, people were soldiers in Northern Africa were navigating using just the sun. And this is a lost art, but there's some joy in finding it. There's some joy in finding these things and doing that.
You know, the Pith helmet is probably questionable, but you know, even on the other side of it for those on YouTube, but we, this is a Michelin map. Now maps are [00:18:00] great. Michelin maps have been around for a very long time and they've been considered the standard for international travel for a very long time.
You know, and you're looking at the Northeast of Africa, which just happens to be a place that I'm actively planning my route as I move through Africa. But I can see, you know, here's Kenya, here's Ethiopia, Yemen, Oman, and to spread this map out on the table and see it in its entirety is so different than trying to look at a map on a small screen on our phone, we lose that context.
Yeah. And there's something so joyful about doing it with an old map, or in this case, this map is quite old, but it's a map. It's a paper map.
Matt Scott: And, and it's like the tech, we know that the technology is there now. I mean. I think like, let's go back five years ago. I think that's probably like, you know, the bottom for, for paper maps.
Like, why would you use it? There's this great new technology. Well, now we've adopted the technology and it's okay to go back because you can have both. It's very easy. It's a good idea to have [00:19:00] both. I keep, you know, my, my daydream lately is I, you know, and this isn't necessarily an overland, you know, trip, but I have this 68 short wheelbase, not 11, that's nearly done.
At AutoWorks, it's a shop down in Scottsdale that does kind of high end European. It's, it's nearly done and I want to just take off in this thing, but I want to leave my phone or, you know, get a dumb phone like you have and stick it somewhere. If I break down, cause it's an old car or whatever, just bring a spot where you have, have kind of everything be like in the period and go somewhere remote and enjoy it and like totally disconnect.
Like that's, I think like I talked to a lot of people these days and it's this idea of travel as the disconnect that is. Huge. And what better way than to kind of, you know, surround yourself with that correct stuff, that correct era. Cause you, you kind of have to be in it. You know, you have to be in the defender that doesn't have the [00:20:00] big, you know, the big added sat nav and radio and all this kind of stuff.
Scott Brady: It's been, it's been so interesting since I started using the dumb phone because I don't have any maps anymore. So now I'm looking up where I wanting to go and I'm having to put, you know, put it to memory and then really pay attention to where I'm at. Like when I go hiking now, I. I'm really having to pay attention to where I'm making turns and everything else like that.
And I like, I'm beginning to really like it. And, and, and it's, again, we're not, this isn't travel advice. It's more just, maybe it's a thought exercise of were things better a long time ago in some ways. And are they better now? Let's, Find the best of both. Like, let's, let's appreciate that technology has come about and that we, we have advancements in medicine and things like that.
We have antibiotics, we have things like that that do make our life so much better. But there are also things that are really interesting about [00:21:00] 30, 40, 50 years ago, overlanding. I mean there's some, I brought some books too, but this is actually a book called Overlanding by John Steele Gordon. And so many people think that overlanding is this new thing.
And I've been doing it for 20 years and I'm in my infancy of knowledge and my business when it comes to overlanding infancy, because this book was written in 1975. And you think about the first Overland trip was done in the late 18 hundreds by in a Mercedes-Benz. But in this book, this is so fun. So 1975, and he talks about what Overland is.
He says, overlanding is the land lovers' equivalent of sailing the long, slow crossing of large areas of the world. And it's not any different than
Matt Scott: it is. I've never heard it put that way, but I love it. That's exactly how I feel.
Scott Brady: It is. And that's what we're talking about is this long, slow journey of discovery.
And if we can peel [00:22:00] away some of these things that distract us and insulate us, then maybe we'll have. A different experience, not necessarily better, but I think it's an experience that we want. I mean, I think about what you just talked about with your Porsche. If you just brought along a spot just in case an emergency happened, but you had no other way of communicating and the vehicle had an issue, you would break out your toolkit and you would spend some time trying to resolve it.
And if it didn't work, you'd have to flag down another motorist. Yeah. Just like you'd have to do, you'd have to reach out, you have to connect in with the world around you to try to solve problems or, or hitch a ride into town to go get a part or whatever. And like, is that such a bad thing to be able to like have those experiences?
Matt Scott: Yeah. I mean, let's, let's put it in like an overlander four wheel drive context. Right. I think the idea of the spot is a great idea to have, to have some way of communicating.
Scott Brady: And that would be like, if you had an accident, there's no reason to die. Yeah. Yeah. There's no reason. Engaging
Matt Scott: something. Take [00:23:00] it seriously.
But don't take it that seriously. And, and also like people don't really like stop these days because they just assume that you have a cell phone and you're going to call AAA, you're going to, you know, the world has changed. It's not to say that the world isn't still a friendly place. It's just the. The world's changed.
Sure. Like one of the first things that you taught me was, you know, you can look at four wheel driving like a chess game, right? Like don't, you don't have to continually change the game. You can kind of change the player. And to me that meant, you know, like I remember having that, that terrible Jeep on like 37s and it was just so easy.
To do like the trails that, you know, generally like the overland trails that we were doing. And then I went and I got this series two, a one Oh nine Land Rover. Yeah. And I learned so much. Cause even,
Scott Brady: and I remember a lot more smiles in that car. Oh, cause it was just, man, I
Matt Scott: still love, I, I, yeah,
Scott Brady: yeah. We got to find Ralph
Matt Scott: somewhere, somewhere.
Although I think, I think I'm, I've closed the land or chapter. It was a good chapter, but. Yeah. [00:24:00]
Scott Brady: Sometimes we need, sometimes we need boundaries.
Matt Scott: Yeah. You know, I look back on that and you know, let's just for the exercise of, of, of this say it's in a Toyota now, the, the little obstacles that you encounter on forest service roads and the things that you're, you're typically traveling overland are just, you don't even, you don't even put it, the vehicle on four wheel drive anymore.
You generally don't even recognize that they're there because you have. 10 inches of wheel travel, or you have a big tires, huge, huge tires. I mean, like cars coming with 35s. And the first thing people ask is how can I fit 37s? How can that comes with 37s? How can I fit forties? A 30 inch tire used to be like, not that long ago used to be.
Like a large tire, like oh yeah, that was an appropriate tire.
Scott Brady: That's what Wranglers came with. Yeah. Was thirties and now they come with from the factory with 30 fives if you want 'em.
Matt Scott: Yeah. So the idea that, again, you're just, you're a little bit more immersive on the trail mm-hmm. the things that, oh, hey, [00:25:00] yeah, that, that, that climb, what climb is what you're gonna ask in a modern vehicle where the trash control just kicks on.
And these cars have had that stuff for so long now that you don't recognize it, but when you get in a. Skinny tire 40 series or a series Land Rover with a manual transmission leaf springs, maybe a carburetor
Scott Brady: that spurts, you know, sputtering.
Matt Scott: Yeah. That's getting hot on the climb and it's maybe a little bit of vapor lock.
It's not running right. Everything becomes harder and you haven't changed the game of four wheel driving, right? You've changed the player. Sure. And I think that's something that I've come to appreciate more and more is that it's too damn easy now. And
Scott Brady: there's some great examples of that. I know, I don't, I don't know if it's still going on, but Kurt Williams and a bunch of guys in Utah did this trip called the Relic Run.
Oh yeah. And I think everything had to be 1980 ish or older. And they really encouraged, I mean it wasn't a requirement, but they encouraged people to have a paper [00:26:00] map, don't bring your cell phone. Yeah. Bring all your tools, you know, find the old Coleman stove out of your grandpa's garage. And they worked really hard on making as much of it as possible in the kind of the old school way.
And these guys had so much fun. I mean, it was, it was a trip that I had in my top three for a very long time. I always wanted to go on that. Yeah. And I hope they still do it or maybe they'll bring it back. Maybe somebody can reach out and let us know if that's something that's still happening. But. I just love the fact that they embraced it and you, in every photograph, somebody was grinning or laughing because it, it, it had to have been pure mayhem and like stuff breaking down and you know, people getting stuck and we go back
Matt Scott: to this element of escapism.
I think most people in this space are kind of seeking, you know, why else drive, why drive to the absolute middle of nowhere hours down a dirt road to get as far away from, you know, [00:27:00] civilization to really just bring it with you. Yeah. You know, And that's
Scott Brady: okay too. I mean, I think again, like we're trying to, we're trying to say, maybe, maybe think about, and like, one of the things that I'll do when I go camping with the defender is, and I can see it up on the shelf.
Behind you, but I've got my grandpa's bed roll. Yeah. And it's just like, it allows me to also kind of connect in with my grandpa. Yeah. And I've got a lot of stuff from my dad and, and it just gives me that opportunity to kind of reconnect with that and disconnect from our busy lives. Yeah. And all of the onslaught of technology that we've got, and
Matt Scott: again, this isn't, I'm, I'm gonna repeat this, is not necessarily, shouldn't be taken as gospel or as as travel advice for.
For most Overland trips. Like sometimes you need Starlink because you got to earn an income while you're on the road and traveling.
Scott Brady: But then we also see these great examples of people doing the opposite, which is like the goal wing Mercedes that came through Prescott and they're going pretty much around the world in [00:28:00] this extremely rare classic car.
Like, which is just like props to that guy for like, not caring that it's a half a million dollars. I don't even know if that's correct anymore. A very expensive car. Double or triple that. Yeah. So, okay. So like put that into context or like the guys that we know from that did the London taxi trip. Yeah.
Like this is an old school London taxi that they decided to drive around the world and they did. Well,
Matt Scott: I guess we're starting to see it. You know, more on the car side is again, this, this kind of period, correct? The period of pecking rally is coming. There's actually an entire series of like vintage car rallies.
They're not really saying you have to dress in period or, you know, don't carry a phone or anything like that. But you're, you're You're immersing yourself in a very particular experience. Analog
Scott Brady: and analog experience. Yeah. And when you said when you went to Goodwood, that even a lot of people who attended dressed in period,
Matt Scott: Over, over 50 percent like to the point where if you didn't make an [00:29:00] effort, I'm not saying that you were shunned where you got that kind of passive aggressive English kind of thing going on.
Right. You know, like if
Scott Brady: so, how cool is that? I mean, the, the fact that people would show up with a tie and a jacket and a coat. Yeah. And like, that's, there's something about
Matt Scott: that. That's special daydream thing. And it is just kind of a daydream, you know like that, that was definitely a special event to go to, you know, and everybody, everybody's in it.
Yeah. And even the tires are made by Dunlop to the correct specifications of the car sliding through the turns. Yeah. Just because you can make something better doesn't mean maybe that you should.
Scott Brady: Yeah. So, so I like the idea of if you've got a classic vehicle, I mean, we've talked about this a little bit before, but another great example of this is like, Jonathan Hanson's FJ40, he got that car in the early 1970s and he has kept it like pretty much period appropriate in the modifications.
And I remember how intentional he was about that, but the fact that he has had that car for that long and it has to be worth [00:30:00] five times more than what he paid for it. And he got to enjoy a vehicle that at every single stage was
Matt Scott: cool. And that's the perfect example is let's take the FJ40 that somebody bought in the seventies.
So then it, you know, first it became cool to cut the fenders. Yeah. Same with like Broncos. Cut fender cars now, really not super desirable. Practical. Can you fit larger tires? Yes. But the moment you see one that has cut fenders, it just has a different look. Yeah. Then people started putting diamond plate on them because that was the style, because it was more rough.
Scott Brady: more cool. Or they had rust. They had to cover
Matt Scott: up. Yeah. Or, yeah. Or, or, I mean, sometimes that was the case. Sometimes the rust came after because the, the mud and the crud got stuck between the two. You know, it kind of certainly made it worse. Yeah. And, and granted, there's people that use these vehicles as recreational toys that were rock crawling and doing these things.
And yeah, okay. You know, you're not, it's a, maybe a different thing you start to paint a picture. Then they put the three 50 and it was better performance. And then, you know, then they put some different axles under it or, you know, then they did a [00:31:00] spring over and then they put 35s and they're trying to make the car more modern to keep up and they missed the entire point of the car.
That's, I think that's really the lesson is that the stock FJ40, the stock little Bronco with the, yeah, the tires are totally, you know, stuck into the wheels and these tiny little tires. But that is, when you see that car in town, you look at that car. When you see the Bronco that's on 35s with a, they always put like what, a small black Chevy in them, even though they're a Ford and it's got these huge tires and the Krager wheels and all this kind of stuff.
It's definitely not as cool. No, I mean, some of that stuff is period, correct. But there's also, I think, a way to do it and a way to not do it. You know, you have big Ollie, that's the famous, you know, race Bronco. That has all the right stuff because that's how it was actually
Scott Brady: done. Then there's, and then it was also raced,
Matt Scott: which is legitimate raced and actually like used like, you know, acquaintances with the guy that owns that Phillip Serafim and he uses it like he he's rolled it [00:32:00] and how could you roll a car like that?
And it's like. Well, you're, it's a race car, you'd get made fun of if you didn't use it. And then when you do use it, the same, well, you can never
Scott Brady: make, you can never make
Matt Scott: people happy. That's for sure. Yeah. It's, it's an interest.
Scott Brady: So what are some, what are some other things? I mean, we are sitting in British campaign chairs, which British campaigns have to be taken in their full context, including all of the horrific things that occurred.
During those campaigns, but one of the reminiscing on the furniture. Yes, that's right. The furniture was one of the one of the positive The furniture was one of the the positive things that came out of it. How but how fun is that? I mean I have had I've had these chairs Since I think 2007 or 2008 and they still look as good as the day that we got them And I'm not suggesting people go Buy campaign furniture for overlanding, but there's just something that's kind of fun about having them in the office.
And we do, we've got the pith helmet hanging from the tree and we've got some old explorers gloves that Ray Highland [00:33:00] found somewhere on eBay. And I do have a lot of those analog things in my life because I do, I do like it. I do like
Matt Scott: it. I just think it's fun. Yeah. That's what life's supposed to be.
Is it's supposed to be fun. And I
Scott Brady: wonder, like, I mean, I have a, I have a bag here that I just got recently from Melville and Moon and, you know, it's a brand new bag, but it looks like it could be from any period, including a hundred years ago. The reality is, is that a bag like this I can give to my nephews.
Yeah. It's the buy once, cry once. At some point in time, it's a very classic design. It, it like, yes, there are more modern Messenger bags that probably do some things better, but they're going to look dated. Like if you look at some of the messenger bags from even six years ago, it's like, Oh, that's, that's an old bag.
Matt Scott: the, the idea of this like very kind of technical product now it has its, has its places. Right. But like I pull it out the other day and it's only a couple of years old and I'm like, like the style is just like, you know, it looks dated. Right. And we talk about.[00:34:00]
Scott Brady: I mean, even guys have fat, fast fashion. Right. I mean, you can tell like that that's no longer cool. Yeah.
Matt Scott: You know, it's like the, the Swiss gear backpacks that like. Every dad that works in sales and flies a lot has, sorry, dad.
Scott Brady: No, but you can, you can tell, whereas, and again, it's not to say that there's some advantage to this, to this Melville and moon bag, other than the fact that it will last a long time and it will
Matt Scott: look good in its design, right?
It's not trying to be a ninja backpack that. 10 different things. Yeah. Pull out of, 'cause as soon as the, the thing that you're meant to put in that very specific pocket changes, it just becomes a very temporary item. Yeah. Even if it's a good, you know, quality manufacturer. I, I don't know. I mean, I think that there's just something to, again, something that I think we've always kind of talked about is buy once, cry once.
Yeah. Now that doesn't mean that you have to like, buy things exclusively that look like they're from the 1960s or earlier or whatever. Unless
Scott Brady: you like, unless you like that. But it like, maybe think about the fact is, Would you [00:35:00] enjoy something that's more classic?
Matt Scott: Yeah. Like I have a barber jacket that I've had for probably 15 years now.
Yeah. That's a long time. They still sell it. Like I'll have that for another 15 or 20 years. I'm going to have a lot of jackets that are that kind of fast fashion thing that that goes through, but that's still the jacket that I grab when it's. You know, pissing down rain outside all three times of that happens
Scott Brady: in Prescott.
But yeah, when I, when I hop on the Moto Guzzi, I throw on a barber jacket. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same jacket that I've had and it's weathered and dusty and like sun faded. It's of course. Yeah. So of course, and it's just, it doesn't need, and it's probably, it's probably not the best choice just from a safety standpoint.
It's a, it's a 50 something horsepower motorcycle. I'm not going that fast, like it's fine. It's again, it's period correct, correct gear, a bell helmet and a barber jacket and an old school air cooled Moto Guzzi. It all works together. It,
Matt Scott: it, it works. And again, you know, the idea that we're kind of talking about again, isn't.
This is what you should do to [00:36:00] drive around the world. We're talking about it more from a lifestyle element of it's just kind of fun and enjoyable. And it makes escape,
Scott Brady: it makes it fun for you and I, at least. I mean, we have always enjoyed that thing. In fact, we're going to find this picture, but Matt was on the cover of Overland Journal with Kelsey, Kelsey Huber and a couple others.
Maybe it was just YouTube. I think it was us. Yeah. Yeah. You guys had, we had a series Land Rover that we got from Land Rover and you clean one and
Matt Scott: Kelsey had to hold the gun. Cause I didn't really,
Scott Brady: She, she knew how to shoot it.
Matt Scott: I'm from Chicago. We didn't really have that there.
Scott Brady: So she was holding the gun.
There was some campaign furniture in there. We'll find that. I think it was these chairs. It was, it was, we've, we've enjoyed this stuff. It is a lot of fun and it is fun to reminisce about. One of the things that I was hoping that we could do is kind of call on our audience, if anyone is traveling in that way.
Or if anybody is still driving that FJ40 from 1972 that they bought from their dad or the dad gave them when they graduated from high school, [00:37:00] I'd love to see it and we'll repost it. You know, you can reach me, scott. a. brady on Instagram and Matt's Matt Explorer, but you can reach out. I'd love to see some photos of your old school stuff, your old school cool stuff, because I suspect that we're not alone in that appreciation of canvas and leather.
For us, it's canvas and leather and pith helmets. And that's the same pith helmet. I think you were wearing in that photo too. It probably
Matt Scott: see it's lasted a long time. It has aged better than me.
Scott Brady: What else you got, Matt? Any other ideas you think we've kind of talked through that? Period. Correct.
Matt Scott: Vehicle stuff too.
I think that we've kind of talked through it. I mean, I think my advice is just, you know, recognize the era of the vehicle that you're modifying. Yeah. And I think that you can have a lot of fun with it. Yeah. And a lot of times these parts are really cheap, you know, I found these IPF lights for like 50 bucks on eBay and they were essentially brand new.
Yeah. I mean, what is a set of quality spotlights costs these days? Yeah. I mean like 1, 200 bucks, 1, 400 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it, and it allows you to kind of have fun [00:38:00] with these projects. We're gonna. We're, we're going to do some, some interesting restomod things, for example, to the super duty.
But you know, it's going to get a coil conversion and some more modern axles. So it'll actually steer, steer, but you know, aesthetically the goal, you know, keep it, keep it in its period. Because I think you'll find whenever you take an older car and you're trying to make it look new, you're just always reaching, like it wasn't that long ago that people would try and put a different grill on this truck to make it look like the next generation.
Scott Brady: And I think people get tired of their vehicles more quickly that way. I think the closer you keep it to stock or the closer you keep it to being vintage or whatever, the more likely you are going to want to hold onto it. But if you're constantly chasing, eventually these vehicles no longer look right.
And then fairly short order, if you try to keep them looking modern, you know, they
Matt Scott: just end up, it's like the, you know, the Bronco analogy eventually just becomes a. It's a shell of what used to be a Bronco with a bunch of other stuff on it. And a stinger,
Scott Brady: a stinger on a CJ [00:39:00] seven never looks good.
Matt Scott: No, no matter the period, don't put led lights on your CJ seven,
Scott Brady: like, let it be, let it be.
Matt Scott: But, but like, you know, flawed, maybe, maybe the upgrade is that you put some cool H one lights on it and you get like the little, the little mesh wire, you know, chip cover. Yeah, sure. And that's the period modification that things would have. The way I totally had those on
Scott Brady: my CJ seven . Yeah. I had the hella H four, you know, replacement headlamps with the little rock guards on 'em.
Totally did. Super cool.
Matt Scott: Totally did and, and fun and, and comparatively these days, you know, classic cars are not cheap historically, you know, and this isn't investment advice, but they have. Generally gone up in value because there's, again, so many people that cut the fenders out and put all the crap on them that there are, you know, there's, there's fewer and fewer of them every day.
So if you have something that is original and, you know, has the few period correct modifications, it's [00:40:00] probably not going to be something you're going to lose your.
Scott Brady: There's a lot of insights into that and it's part of a good diversification of your portfolio. So, I mean, again, not financial advice, but there has been a significant trend towards things and there, you can access these things at any, at any income level.
You can buy an old Seiko for a couple hundred dollars that can be, that can continue to go up in value because they're not Seiko again. It's old. So it's from 1968 or whatever. And it can go all the way up to the, you know, the 1. 5 million Gold Wing and everything and everything in between. So there, it is a way to engage with some of these things in a really fun way, where it's also.
Not going to go down in value. Yeah.
Matt Scott: And, and I do, I do actually want to maybe do a podcast with my buddy Eli on the collectible four wheel drives because I, you know, I, I kind of have this theory that cars are, have become such a collectible asset, but four wheel drives really aren't appreciated in [00:41:00] the same way, you know, and they're
Scott Brady: by comparison, they're super cheap.
Like what would, what would be like the highest watermark of a, of a classic four wheel drive? It would have to be like an FJ 40. Or it would have to be, I'm trying to think, a defend, really early, correct defend. I mean, the
Matt Scott: highest sale price of a four wheel drive that I'm aware of, classic, collectible, with racing heritage and provenance is Big Ollie that Yeah.
Philip Seraphim bought. That's a one of one car. But that's a one of one thing. I mean, that was over a million dollars. But like
Scott Brady: a classic Bronco, like a real Bronco, you're probably looking at I think 30 grand? 40
Matt Scott: grand? I think maybe a little bit more than that. Not restored. Something that's clean. Well, you know, stuff that isn't restored can.
Oftentimes, well, not oftentimes, generally speaking, it's worth more than, it's only original once. Right. So you're talking about like a survivor car. A survivor car, like the holy grail for me, if I was looking for something would be, I guess the problem with four wheel drives is they generally made a lot of these things.
And scarcity drives prices. Sure. Scarcity and rarity. I mean, [00:42:00] imagine finding a very original 10, 000 mile FJ40. Jeez. I mean, that would be. It would be worth a lot of money. A lot of times these vehicles just weren't ever in the consideration set of something to preserve. You know, let's, let's compare it to a Porsche or better yet, a Ferrari.
People have always known that Ferraris would be special. So people have always taken care of them in such a way to preserve them. Where four wheel drives, particularly in their golden era, 40s, they were utility. They were tools. That's what makes the original stuff, you know, very desirable.
Scott Brady: But it's also, I think, pretty affordable.
I mean, if you compare it, like if you were to compare like the, the barn find FJ 40 to a Ferrari 250, like it's like, like the barn find FJ 40 could, you could probably get it for 70, 80, 90 grand. Like
Matt Scott: now the 250 has production numbers. I think there's about between 50 and 80 of those made 50 to a hundred of those made.
We [00:43:00] don't even know if there's an actually a way to accurately value those cars, right? Because generally speaking, they're all owned by people of which they don't need to sell. It's not an object. Aren't they called
Scott Brady: dead guy cars? Dead guy cars. Yeah. So the only way you get one is somebody has to die.
So, so when
Matt Scott: you're a billionaire car collector and you have a two 50 GTO, you're at the top of the game and what do you sell it for? Yeah. You know, so. And what would you replace it with? Those cars are generally valued somewhere between, you know, depending on the condition, provenance, whatever. There's been rumors of those things selling in excess of a hundred million dollars.
Sure. Like the Mercedes SL Ulan Hout, I believe sold for 140 in the 140s out of the Mercedes Benz museum. I believe they actually donated the money as well. Cars are starting. Cars are starting to become art. And as we rapidly transition, I believe, as we rapidly transition to electric cars, I know that there's varying opinions, but I have to say that that Tesla I bought just [00:44:00] makes me believe that even more, like it's Thank As transport, a wonderful car.
It's not the most exciting thing I've ever owned, but these, these vehicles will become more and more scarce. And, you know, if I was a collector looking at four wheel drives, I would, I would be trying to find the things that are unique, you know, for example, like I'm really bullish on my AEVLJ, there's a handful of them.
Really left that again, where a lot of them were bought to be used. There's very few of them that have 13, 000 miles on, not a scratch on them. And yeah, every literally everything, you know, that, that you could get done. I I'm really interested in that kind of stuff. Stuff that reflects a period of change.
AV is a big change in the industry. Was that kind of, that. Disrupting force. It was it for sure. It was really cool. I would be looking at barn fines. I would be looking at stuff that as original as possible. Look at like the FJ forties. They spiked in value, let's call it 2012 to [00:45:00] 2015. They went through the roof and then Venezuela and Columbia heard about it.
Yeah, and the value, they're like, we've got those . The value of a Of a, of a very well restored FJ 40 went from fetching $150,000 at auction. To maybe 75 because the supply was just so much. Sure. So again, I go back to originality, that time capsule vehicle, because it's only original once sure. Everything else can almost in perpetuity.
I think the old Land Rover stuff is great, I think, you know, of the means, I think the, honestly, like the Lamborghini LM zero zero two is very, Oh God, I saw one in Scottsdale a couple of weeks ago that had the entire Smittybilt catalog thrown at it and I'm like, No, why would you
Scott Brady: do that? Yeah. You know, even the tires on that car were so, they were very specifically made for that.
Yeah. They even had these little scallops on the [00:46:00] shoulder to help scoop sand. Yeah. It was amazing.
Matt Scott: Cool. Amazing. Cool. I think. N a s spec defender one tens. Yeah. And n a s Spec Defender nineties, particularly the one tens will always have a 500
Scott Brady: of 'em. And who, how, how many are left?
Matt Scott: So again, you're, you're starting to talk about scarcity within what is overall a nons scarce market.
You know, that stuff, if I could sock one of those away, that would be quite cool. And, and that's where you get into the, the idea of this kind of period Correct. Thing that, to me, the perfect defender is, John Lee's, of course, from expedition exchanges, of course, defender the right modifications to it. Yeah.
I think that that will be very desirable. Yeah.
Scott Brady: Like even the, like even then the expedition exchange when, when they had their moment. Yeah. You know, early on in overlanding, like all of those modifications, we all know them still like, like the, the, like the, the two meter. Antenna
Matt Scott: that would come up and stuff like that.
You know, it's, it's the snow peak, the snow, the right snow peak stuff, the right, [00:47:00] whatever. I think that it was legit. It worked like the truck edition land rovers. Yeah. We'll be. Desirable. I think the problem is again, they kind of fall into this territory of there's a stigma against preserving four wheel drives and a lot of those things, they became so cheap.
You know, we're talking a lot of these truck things that were some years or eight of them built or something like that. Like very rare car. I think of the experience I was able to have getting that, you know, truck from Land Rover that delivered was like 500 miles on it. It did. You know, no, that's still low mile and floating around.
But. Yeah, it's still being used by Land Rover. Yeah, which is awesome. And I think that, I think it's great to keep these vehicles going. Yeah. The key is just preserving them. And the first time I saw that car was in Mahwah, New Jersey. I was working for Land Rover and just had a tarp and tires sitting on it.
Yeah. But everything goes through that. Right. Where it's desirable when it's new. Somebody stashes it away. It becomes less desirable. It becomes forgotten about. And the next thing you know, like original Land Rovers, [00:48:00] like how many original series Land Rovers are
Scott Brady: there? Yeah. Not many. Not many. Certainly not in North America.
Well, that was fun. Yeah. So send us your classic vehicles. Send us like if you've done a trip in a classic four wheel drive, we'd love to hear about it. It just, we geek out on this stuff. So again, not travel advice, but super fun. Makes me smile. Makes me smile. Makes me laugh. Just to like, just remembering you driving that Ralph around the old series Land Rover, just like the terror in your eyes.
Matt Scott: I remember the way the master cylinder was done. There'd be a bubble. And it, so, so if you wanted the brakes to work, you had to pump it three or four times. That's
Scott Brady: when I remember the terror in your eye. Cause it was like some failed hill climb tire way in the air. And Matt's eyes were like saucers.
Like, am I going to die?
Matt Scott: I remember my like left. No, it would have been my left leg. Just like trying to keep the brake pressure.
Scott Brady: So these things make us laugh. They're fun. And we thank you all for listening and we'll talk to you next time.