Show Notes for Podcast #125
Tina and Dave Payne on Family Travel and Seizing the Moment

Dave and Tina Payne on growing up in Africa, directing horror films, and choosing to say yes to exploring the world with your family.  

Guest Bio:

Host Bio: 

Scott Brady

Scott is the publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and includes three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady








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Tina and Dave Podcast

Scott Brady: Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am your host Scott Brady. And my guests today is Tina and Dave Payne. Not only are they good friends of mine, but they are also exceptionally well traveled. Uh, they have also brought in some really interesting products into the North American market, including Front Runner and most recently the C6 Outdoors Rev Tent. But what we talk about in today's podcast is really about their travels throughout the Americas as a family. They travel with themselves and their two sons in a Land Rover discovery. So please enjoy my varied conversation with Tina and Dave Payne. This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in 2006 [00:01:00] with the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews along with the most stunning adventures and photography. We care deeply about the countries and cultures. We visit and share our experiences freely with our readers.

We also have zero advertorial policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews. By subscribing to Overland Journal, you're helping to support our employee owned and veteran owned publication. Your support also provides resources and funding for content like you are watching or listening to right now. You can subscribe directly on our All right. Hello and welcome to all of you to the Overland Journal podcast. I am your host, Scott Brady, and I am here with my good friends, Tina and Dave Payne, and we have spent a lot of time together in various [00:02:00] parts of the world, including Africa.

Dave Payne: That's right. We've forgot about that. 

Scott Brady: We've, we've traveled together as well. And you guys have an absolutely fascinating story and I think so many lessons that can be shared with our audience. So I'm so grateful that you two are on the podcast with me today, so.

Dave Payne: Well, thanks for having us. 

Tina Payne: Thanks guys.

Scott Brady: Absolutely. And I would love to start it with you, Tina, because you grew up in South Africa. Yes. This is a place that so many Overlanders aspire to visit, and in many ways it was the birthplace of overlanding along with Australia. And there's so many lessons to be learned with how Africans travel, overland, uh, and the experiences that you've had. So talk a little bit about what it was like to grow up in South Africa and to grow up with an adventurer as a dad. 

Tina Payne: So, yes. Yes. So my dad is a big adventurer and loves the African bush, and so a lot of our vacations as kids, [00:03:00] Bush vacations and rooftop tents and things like that were just something that was the norm.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And, and why, why did South Africans use roof tents? This is the thing that I think a lot of people don't understand. Why do you even use them to begin with? 

Tina Payne: I think just the remoteness of the places you were camping. They, it, it wasn't this, in America, I feel like you have a lot of national parks and you're never, I don't know, more than 13 clicks away from gas.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Tina Payne: And everything else. With a rooftop tent, I feel like you had your entire, you basically had your daily driver become your rv. 

Scott Brady: Yep. 

Tina Payne: And so you could sleep there and you could set up camp in very remote areas and do primitive camping. A lot of what that was. Cause there, there are still places in Africa where you can go, where there's no one how much.

Dave Payne: I think what Scott's asking is how much does it have to do with lions? 

Tina Payne: You know? I don't know how much it has to do with lions. To be [00:04:00] completely fair, I think, you know, if I look at how my dad used to go camping, he used to do a thing with 10 friends would go for 10 days to the middle of nowhere and the cocoa felt or somewhere, and I think they just slept in sleeping bags on the ground. I mean there's stories of elephant tracks in between the sleeping bags. 

Scott Brady: Yes. 

Tina Payne: The next morning. So I don't know. I mean, I do remember also sleeping in a rooftop tent with my sister on one of these trips and waking up to like crunch. And elephants were eating in the trees that were, our tent was in , so I don't know that being up high was that difference.

Dave Payne: What's your elephant mouth height? 

Tina Payne: I at elephant mouth height. So luckily they don't eat people. 

Scott Brady: I think you're right. And I think that that's part of the misconception.

Tina Payne: Yes. 

Scott Brady: Is that South Africans use roof tents because of lion. I think that it's probably more relevant for like a black mamba for example. Like those there, the snakes in Africa are extremely deadly. 

Tina Payne: That's [00:05:00] true. 

Dave Payne: And can't they climb up trees? 

Tina Payne: They, they can. They can. I mean, I think also it was about the compactness of it was a way to travel where you had, where you would sleep, you had everything you needed in one. 

Dave Payne: I think having traveled to South Africa a lot, um, due to my lovely wife, I think South Africans know it's nice, right? Like with food and with how to entertain with their brides. And I think they're like, if I'm gonna go out and sleep someplace, I wanna sleep comfortably. Yeah. I think the tent was a way to move a mattress around the rooftop tent. 

Tina Payne: And for, for us, I mean, I remember with America and Rooftop 10 camping not even being a thing. I mean, when we first had, I think Front Runner was one of the first two companies to sell rooftop tents in America. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: When we would go camping on the beach, I mean, people would come up to us and climb into the roof. They'd never seen anything like it before. But the downsides for me was if we went to a national park or we went camping, Your campsite was not where your vehicle [00:06:00] was.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Tina Payne: So you'd set up your campsite, but your fire and everything else was so far away. Dave Payne: Unless you're dispersed camping. But then you can make your nice little compound. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. And the beauty of the rooftop tent was the mattress. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Tina Payne: Which was like, okay, you're gonna sleep comfy. You don't have to sleep on an air mattress in the morning.

Scott Brady: They, they don't let alone. 

Tina Payne: And they're a little warmer if you're off the ground. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Those kinds of things. Ultimately, I think that's also how the rev tent was born. Dave and I were like, well, what if you wanted to go camp by that waterfall right there? But now your tent is stuck on your truck. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: And your truck can't go there. What if you set up camp and now you wanna go three miles down the road to go fishing? 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: But now you've gotta put everything back together just to go down the. So I think rooftop 10 camping in South Africa was a convenient thing. And also because you were so far from anything else. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And now rooftop 10 camping for me is all about the mattress I'm all about the mattress’. The reason to sleep up high is the mattress.

Scott Brady: I think that you make a good [00:07:00] point, Dave. I think that when I go traveling with South Africans, they camp so much and it's such a part of their culture. Like I think about, you know, Jess from e Zion or like your dad, Stanley. These guys have camped for decades. And they kind of got it sorted out. Right. They want to wait. They want to wait to make a great barbecue orry, like you call it. 

Tina Payne: Yep. 

Scott Brady: And they want to have a comfortable place to sleep. 

Tina Payne: Yep. 

Scott Brady: And also, you just never know what your campsite's gonna be sometimes. And then you always know that your, your tent's gonna set up on your roof. So I think that there's some flexibility with that too. But it is interesting that there are so many South Africans that don't camp in roof tents. They camp in ground tents as well.

Tina Payne: Yes. 

Scott Brady: And they've got these really beautiful, you know, canvas or thicker wall.

Dave Payne: but they travel with a cot. 

Scott Brady: They do or a.

Tina Payne: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I think also it's not a big deal. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: To go camping. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Like I think we grew up with it not being other, it wasn't called overlanding. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Tina Payne: What we were [00:08:00] doing and we were overlanding course like Dave and I went on honeymoon. And we went all through Botswanan and Namibia and we had a truck with a rooftop tent. 

Scott Brady: Yes. 

Tina Payne: And at that time, I mean we're talking about nearly 2004, 20 years ago. 

Yeah. It wasn't, it didn't have a name. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: It was just how we were traveling. 

Scott Brady: Camping. So camping, sometimes camping. He went camping. We went camping. Tina Payne: And, and sometimes we'd stay in lodges. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: That was the other thing. I think also we're not, I don't think South Africans feel like you have to camp.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: You know, if there's a beautiful lodge, you'll stay in the beautiful lodge and then you'll camp out of necessity if you. You know, making your drive and you've hit a place where, okay, there's no, there's no town nearby. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And you're tired and you don't wanna keep driving. And so you have the capacity with your setup to be able to pull over and go a few hundred meters into the bush and set up your camp. And even in some sort of national parks, I think we'd do that and yeah. If someone came by, you'd be [00:09:00] like, yeah, it got later. Got dark, we set up here. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And there was misunderstanding. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: Okay. Yeah. You're not meant to camp here, but, okay. I mean, there's the bit of the wild west there where it's is not as regulated, so that's possible, but was just more of a way to vacation than a big expedition type serious thing.

Scott Brady: Yeah. It was just a part of life. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Scott Brady: In South Africa, the way you.

Tina Payne: Yeah. The way you went on holiday. 

Scott Brady: Are there some, are there some funny stories that come to mind of when you were growing up and camping? Like just the crazy, what are some of the craziest things that happened to you and your family when you were out? Just. Trying to go camping for the weekend. 

Tina Payne: My dad always had this thing where he was like, you have to be organized. If you're not organized, you're not gonna have a nice time. His organized meant if you're not organized, you're gonna be cold or you're gonna be hungry. He had very specific rules, like you were never to bring eggs, you were never bringing eggs. That was just a stupid thing to do. , like you were never gonna bring eggs or tomatoes. 

Dave Payne: To this [00:10:00] day we are not allowed to bring eggs camping. 

Tina Payne: No, no. We don't bring eggs or tomatoes cuz they just smush. Um, . Yeah. I think my dad had had some really interesting things. I, I think I remember when they were doing one of their trips, they had a friend who fell asleep where He woke up and he was like, well, the ground's moving. It's moving. It's slowly, but it's moving. And he turned and his sleeping bag string had hooked onto the back leg of a hippo. 

Scott Brady: Oh. 

Tina Payne: Who was grazing? And he was just, the hip was just completely unaware that he was dragging France while he was grazing  . And he was like, okay, how do I get out of this? Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And kinda slipping, slipping the string off of the back leg when it was lifted up. So crazy things like that. But I think also when we.

Scott Brady: Is is that Franze? 

Tina Payne: There was actually another Fran Franz Bendik. Oh. Who? Who also, he was a German guy. He's uh, since passed away. But he was [00:11:00] amazing. He would not travel with anything other than Perrier . So he needed his Perrier water . And this was back in the time when it came in glass bottles. And he would drive my dad crazy cuz he's like, who takes glass? Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And a camping truck. 

Dave Payne: You don't even take an egg. Who? Glass? 

Tina Payne: You don't take an egg. Who takes glass? . So he had his, and this is a brilliant story, so they were up in the middle of nowhere, I think it was Northern Namibia, somewhere like that. And they had camped. By a river. And France was so excited because now he could take this bottle of Perrier and he could put it in the river and it could cool overnight. It was gonna be spectacular. The next morning, . And he did that and they woke up in the morning and some Koi Bushman had come down and there were women who were just, you know, washing things in the river. And she saw this bottle and she opens the bottle per, and she sniffs it and she's. Oh my God. She paused the whole bottle out and fills it with river water and starts drinking . She was like, there's something very wrong [00:12:00] with that water. That water is not good water. 

Scott Brady: That's such, that's such a great story cuz it is so much about perspective, right?

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. So for her it was like, why? But now that is very much an overland thing. Bubbly water. It is now a thing. 

Tina Payne: Bubbly water. Really? 

Scott Brady: Yeah. It, it appears to that. 

Tina Payne: Bendeck would appreciate,  would appreciate it. 

Scott Brady: Look at what he started the term that.

Tina Payne: Yeah exactly.

Dave Payne: The term that he started do the earth Roamers have soda streams built in.

Scott Brady: I'm sure that's an option. I'm sure that's an option. Talk a little bit about how you went from living in Johannesburg, traveling around South Africa and now you're sitting here in Prescott. Wow. Mar married to an American. How did you get from South Africa to America? 

Tina Payne: So I was very excited to leave home, not because I didn't have an absolutely charm childhood. I was just one of those independent people who was just dying to do things on my own. I left, um, South Africa when I was 19. I went to a drama school in London. Where my dad thought I'd meet a [00:13:00] lot of strange people and then eventually go home and do something sensible, . And then I landed up in LA basically for work. I'd finished my drama school in London and I, there was a director to meet you and I was meant to come for two weeks. And then I applied for my green card and it was literally back in the. Pre 9/11 days. Sure. So I applied for a work permit and a green card, and I got the green card before I got the work permit. So I ended up moving here. My training was all in classical theater, so I was very interested in film and TV and, and learning about that. So I was interning and stuff while I was in la and then Dave and I met at a party. And I took him a bit and then I lost and I had to marry him, like the rest is history.

Dave Payne: We, we met before smartphones and she , she, she insisted that she was correct about something we couldn't instantly check. So it was a good excuse to.

Tina Payne: Yeah, you Google it. 

Dave Payne: It was a good excuse to exchange numbers cuz we had to go back home. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: And then TU tunnel through AOL to the worldwide [00:14:00] web to then get the answer.

Tina Payne: Oh, I actually, I think I had a play. That we had the answer and it was at home . And so I looked at the play and I lost the bit and I was like, dang, I've gotta pay him and I don't have the money . And I phoned him and I was like, oh God, he's gonna think he's gonna think I'm gonna wanna date him and I don't know how to do.

Dave Payne: I was happy for her to work it off. 

Tina Payne: And I was like, I don't know how to date like this dating thing. I'm a serial monogamous, like if I kiss you, I'm with you for six months.  like, this isn't gonna happen. So I called him and I was like, okay, I owe you the money. I don't have the money. I can pay you an installment. And Dave was like, well, we can start with a dinner . And I was like, okay. But it's not a. It's not a date, it's a settling of a bet. And he is like, absolutely, I do not date actresses . So . So that's how that all happened. 

Dave Payne: So I groomed Tina into becoming a producer.

Tina Payne: And then he married me 

Dave Payne: and then I married.

Tina Payne: He wouldn't marry an actress

Scott Brady: So the acting thing is so fascinating too. So talk a little bit about some of the acting that you did. [00:15:00] 

Tina Payne: So, um, in the beginning, um, it was a lot of voiceover, I guess. I was lucky. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, you're a great voice. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. In my accent. And there was a big thing in a lot of the PlayStation games where they were looking for what they called like, Mid-Atlantic or trans-Atlantic kind of accent. And so I did a lot of like PlayStation voices for games. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: Back in the day, Dave and I ended up actually making a movie together that I acted in, and Dave wrote and directed and composed the music. It was a horror film and we had great success with that. 

Scott Brady: And what's the name of the film? 

Tina Payne: It's called Reer.

Scott Brady: Reer. 

Tina Payne: It's about a smelly monster. 

Scott Brady: Okay. 

Tina Payne: We did that. Yeah. I think during the process I kind of realized that the acting part of it wasn't what I loved about acting. I think if you'd asked me at drama school like, or told me that, you know, you would, you know, eventually not wanna be an actor. I think as an actor you're coming from [00:16:00] insider a story. And you're, you know, you're, it's very sort of insular and you're the character within the story. And when we made recon, I got to produce. I was really excited by the fact that you could be involved in the whole story and you could put the whole thing together. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: I also did have an acting agent in South Africa who always said to me, you're too bossy to be an actress. And I was like, you know, you are my agent. So it's not so good that you don't feel like I should be an actor cuz you're my acting pagen. I think she was right. I, I didn't like other actors. I felt like people were so self-absorbed. I really found a means to be involved in. I think it also depends on why you're an actor. I think I, I, my initial wanting to go into acting was my love of storytelling. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: I love stories and, um, storytelling and I think that the producing gave me a much better, or sort of coming at the story from a lot of different angles rather than from [00:17:00] just. Inside that story. 

Scott Brady: Well, and you're really good with details and you're good with coordinating people and finding.

Tina Payne: Yeah. And I love finding people love the people stuff. 

Scott Brady: Exactly. 

Tina Payne: I love the people stuff. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. It seems like a natural transition. Yeah. Dave? 

Dave Payne: Yes. 

Scott Brady: Where did you grow up?

Dave Payne:  I grew up in Chicago, made my way to Iowa for college. 

Scott Brady: Okay. 

Dave Payne: And then made my way to California cuz that's where movies are made  or were made in the day.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And talk about about your time making movies. I mean, it's just like for me, I've never watched one of your films because a Harry Potter is an 11 for me. . Right. So like, I just, like, I cannot watch scary movies. I'll never sleep again is the problem. 

Tina Payne: And, and horror movies are like Marzi Pan. You're either in or you out , there's no in between. Like, you either love Marzi Pan or you don't.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Tina Payne: There's no like, ah, yeah, I can do a little bit of Mazzie Pan. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah. 

Dave Payne: I rolled into LA on a al around midnight on December 31st. And in the neighborhood I, I was moving to, there was a film being made on a [00:18:00] holiday, you know, late at night. And uh, it turned out it was Roger Corman's studio. And Roger Corman is known as sort of the King of the Bean movies. He's produced probably over 500 movies and talking to some friends about what I was gonna do for work. You know, some people in the neighborhood, they're like, you should just walk over to the studio around the corner. They're always looking for people. So I walked in and they, you know, I gave them my, my student films and won some awards and I'm like, I'm looking for directing work, you know, I, I don't know how it works. Yeah. And they're like, we don't have a directing job for you, but we are looking for interns, you know, to pa and I'll, I'll take it, you know? So, yeah, I worked for free for a while and I worked my way up through that company from, uh, working for free to doing craft service. When I did craft service, I would put the breakfast out, put some snacks out. Then I'd take a two hour break and watch one of Roger's movies, and then I would put the lunch. Go shopping, take a break, watch another of Roger's movies. Cause what I was trying to do is figure out the formula for what he, what kind of movies he wanted to make. 

Scott Brady: Sure. Sure. 

Dave Payne: So after doing that for three or four months, I, um, wrote a script that I sold to him. And then eventually I went basically from craft service to directing movies for this guy.

[00:19:00] And I made 12 features for this company. All different genres. 

Scott Brady: Wow. 

Dave Payne: None, none of 'em were horror. There was a sci-fi thriller. There were a couple comedies. There was a, a tough cop noir thing and there was a stripper movie. 

Scott Brady: What was your favorite of all ones you did? 

Dave Payne: Uh, probably this cop noir thing called, it ended up being called Urban Justice. Um, nice.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: But, but it was a fun place. It was basically like grad school for filmmaking. Yeah. Cause you got to, you got to play with a bunch of different genres. So I, they made maybe 14 movies a year, and towards the end it kind of got maybe my pick of what I wanted to do. So I always made sure I was doing a genre that I hadn't done before.

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Dave Payne: But there was fun stuff. Like, I put Will Ferrell in his first movie and, uh, Jason Sudeikis in his first two movies. 

Scott Brady: Oh, that's amazing. 

Dave Payne: Um, so yeah, there's a lot of people that kind of went through that, that, uh, yeah. Factory. And then after that I made some independent films, worked for some other people, and I met Tina and we, um, we decided to basically start our own business, which was making our own independent film. So it was more or less raising the money, hiring the, the, the team, you know, uh, you know, getting your employees, [00:20:00] creating a product. In this case it's just one product. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: One movie. Mm-hmm.  that all the money and time goes. It takes about a year, year and a half to get the whole thing done. Then you have this one product you have to sell. It's like do or die. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: With the one product. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You're all in, all in the whole investment. All the investors, all the people. This one, and there's only like seven people to sell to, so it's not even.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Dave Payne: The odds are so crazy. But we lucked out. We, we out in a bunch of big festivals we're in, um, um, south by Southwest and, um.

Tina Payne: Tribeca.

Dave Payne: We did Tribeca. Anyway, we sold the movie. We made money, so we made a couple more independently. Um, and, you know, made money. It was good. Uh, but it was still super, super risky. Every time we did it, we were like walking on eggshells, like Sure. This, we are not big gamblers that way. 

Scott Brady: Right. 

Dave Payne: And I think neither of us loved the art of it enough to risk everything on it.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Like to risk the house and the livelihood and, you know, we wanted to have a family and we wanted to, we're like, well, how artsy are we that we want to continue.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Taking these risks. And at that point, I didn't really wanna work for anybody else. We had the, we had the [00:21:00] independent bug. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You know it like it's an entrepreneurial thing.

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You're like, how, how hard would it. Be for you to go to work for someone else. 

Scott Brady: I'm totally, totally unemployable. 

Dave Payne: Right. It would never happen. 

Tina Payne: Right, right. 

Dave Payne: You wouldn't do it. You'd rather just live out of one of your trucks than actually. Scott Brady: Could be homeless for the rest of my life. Overlanding I'm sorry. 

Dave Payne: Yeah, right.

Scott Brady: Exactly. 

Dave Payne: The same , same, same, but different . Same. So, so we decided, uh, so we were, we weren't necessarily looking for a way out. We were just seeing like the, the, the, and also piracy was super bad. Oh, I see. So this is before Netflix was streaming. Netflix was just still sending DVDs in the mail and we were running outta places to sell stuff too. And as we were selling our movies, they were being stolen. 

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Dave Payne:  So for example, we sold a movie to Russia. Russia gives you an advance. They say, Hey, we're gonna give you this money, and they're gonna, and we're gonna make our film elements for the movie theaters in Russia. And you're supposed to use that money to make the film elements. So they give you the deposit. And then they call a month later and they say, stop, stop making the film elements because we don't need the movie anymore. Like, what do you mean? They're like, well, you can keep the deposit, but it's already released here. You know, like this just pirated. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: So we lost our, our, our two thirds of the money and, um, but that, that was happening in [00:22:00] territory after territory.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: And so the, the, the windows for where you could sell were closing and the people that were stealing the movie weren't getting punished. You can find our movies on Google by typing the name of the movie in free. And it, you didn't, you didn't need Bit torrent, you didn't need all this crazy software. You could literally press play, watch like a Tide detergent commercial, and then our movie would play and we couldn't get it off the internet. We literally couldn't do it. 

Tina Payne: It was easier to steal it than it was to buy it. 

Dave Payne: So we're making a living and not a bad living, but we're like making a living of school teachers or whatever.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Dave Payne: But we're making these movies that are quote unquote, you know, successful, but we just can't monetize them properly. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: So we started thinking about this concept of, well, what if we made something that was, uh, like a widget, like something that was tangible that you could hold, that couldn't be digitally stolen with the press of a button, with a, you know, the, the flip us a switch or the move of a mouse. And so right around that time, Tina's dad who had a a, a piece of front runner, um, in South Africa was like, we're looking for some help in America. Are you guys interested? Like, no way. 

Tina PayneL Like we're, we watch movies, artists, we're gonna make Rex. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Why would we do that? That's crazy. That's, you know, like a year went on we're kind of like, that's could be [00:23:00] the widget we were talking about.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: We had the entrepreneurial bug because we raised money, we sold products, we were telling stories, you know, hiring people. We, we started the day with nothing and made this tangible thing at the end of the day and we realized that that's what we got a lot of joy out of. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Dave Payne: Not the fact that it was actually a movie, maybe or not the fact that it was writing the music, but the fact that we had nothing. And at the end of the year, we made something for the world.

Scott Brady:  Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You know? 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Dave Payne: So I think we started wrapping our heads around this concept that maybe that would work with a roof rack business. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Right. But what you could be creative about building a brand.

Dave Payne: Building, starting with and saying, here's, we can make something wasn't a movie.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: But it was a, a brand. 

Scott Brady: Right. 

Tina Payne: And no one would comment on the third act. 

Dave Payne: Right. 

Tina Payne: No one would have a problem with it. Like it is what it is. It's made out of Illumina, . Scott Brady: Little did little did you know that people will still find a way. 

Tina Payne: Oh, they will still find a way. 

Dave Payne: Always. Yeah. There's always somebody.

Scott Brady: Something to complain about. Yeah. You mean you used a 12 millimeter , right? Like, who would use a 12 millimeter? I, I don't know, [00:24:00] 

Dave Payne: But we, we spent about a year like just doing a study of the market. Like who else is out there and what are they doing and how are they marketing it? Why, why would we be able to step into. Market space. 

Tina Payne: Yeah.

Dave Payne: And, and create something with it. So we did a lot of those swat analysises of uh, like whatever, we're not, we're not business people by the way. We think we're pretty practical. Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: And we have common sense enough to maybe, uh, mirror like what some successful people are doing, you know, so you can kinda look at the mark and say like, that's cool, that makes sense. Or they're very successful doing that. And so we kind of pieced together this idea of what we could do with front runner in America. And, and basically it was pretty simple. At the time it was maybe a little revolutionary. Now it seems so common, but we basically took a roof rack accessory company and made it a lifestyle brand.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: That was the goal. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: We're gonna get people using this gear. We're gonna tell people that you need this piece of auto hardware.

Tina Payne: And sell.

Dave Payne: To have the life of your dream. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Scott Brady: No one was doing Instagram photo of your dreams. Yeah. 

Dave Payne: And that was even before Instagram was even sort of a, that's a thing. So we, we were at the beginning of all the social, at the beginning of saying, let's tell a story with a roof rack, which no one was doing at the time.

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Scott Brady: And you guys did a, you guys did an absolutely fantastic job of [00:25:00] that. And everyone that's listening knows of Front Runner and they know of the brand. They probably have seen a lot of your, yeah. Your advertisements and front runner to its credit always. Really practical. Good. 

Tina Payne: Well, yes. And it was easy. They made it cause you had a product that you could really get behind and you could say.

Scott Brady: yeah, they made an honest product. 

Tina Payne: This is the best roof rack. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. We actually felt it was the best.

Tina Payne: It was. 

Dave Payne: And you know, with our new business, when we had to get some other roof racks and try 'em out, I kept, I just like, oh my God, this is terrible. Like the front runner really is the best. Like just reminding myself that Yeah. As I tried to assemble these other things or look at these terrible fitment guides or missing pieces. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. It was not difficult to get behind to that. 

Scott Brady: Well, and you guys did a, an incredible job with that and you built the business up and then you guys, as a family, this is such an interesting thing for us to talk about and the podcast today is you guys, you build up the business, everything's running. You guys did a great job. And then you decide we are going to take some time for our family and we're gonna go see part of the world. And you [00:26:00] guys loaded. A land rover, LR3, is that right? 

Tina Payne: Yep. Yeah. 

Scott Brady: Of all things. Um, and. 

Dave Payne: Snob. 

Scott Brady: Well, no, it's not that. It's bra bravery, right? 

Tina Payne: Bravery. Bravery, brave stupidity.

Scott Brady: Courage. Courage. 

Tina Payne: Courage or stupidity. 

Scott Brady: What inspired you guys to, to make this decision that we have this moment in time to go see this part of the world with our family and our kids? 

Dave Payne: There are three things, I believe. So one was, you know, we we're selling this gear and you wanna sort of live the.

Tina Payne: Live the brand.

Dave Payne: Live the brand a little bit. And, and while we, we traveled in Africa that way and we took. You know, we took our two young boys on like a dinosaur themed, you know, Overland trip in America. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You know, and just camped for three weeks and went to all the dinosaur places in Wyoming and you know. 

Scott Brady: Awesome. 

Dave Payne: So that was fun. Did a lot of dispersed camping, but we keep on hearing about these trips that everyone's taking and we're like, we didn't get into the business to take a vacation. We know a lot of people are in, let's say, the overlanding space to have an excuse to take vacations. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure.

Dave Payne: But we also felt like we need to use the gear and like really live [00:27:00] it. Yeah. So that was one reason.

Tina Payne: I think we'd always also wanted to do something like that with the kids. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Like a long-term kind of trip and show them other normals. We didn't at that time. Really have the plan to do it or know where we wanted to do it. I think we felt at that point in time, oh my gosh, like if we do do this, we're gonna have to do it soon. They're old enough now where we can take them on a trip where they'll remember, but they're also young enough where they still kind of wanna be with their parents  and, and we won't be tearing them away from their friends and school's not that demanding cuz they're in elementary school. The timing of it. Yeah. Spoke to that. And then I think all this.

Dave Payne: Digital nomad talk was kinda like, well we set up the ship, the ship's sailing with front runner. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: We could probably step away, run our meetings, put in two full days digitally, and then, and then and stay connected digitally.

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Um, so we felt that wouldn't be a huge problem. We wanted to build that life for ourself. That was part of, it's part of working for yourself. Right. Scott, you know, I'm exactly taking a trip for work, you know, and so that kind of felt like it was justifi. [00:28:00] Then the fires happened in Malibu. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: So we were kicked out of our house for almost 10 days. Um, and we thought our house was maybe gonna burn down. So this is a house we had just built. It was, uh, all our possessions we thought, really thought that we were gonna lose everything. And so when we came back, we were kind of like, who cares? Like what about, who cares about this stuff? We don't need this stuff. We, you know, we this.

Tina Payne: You become a lot less precious.

Dave Payne: Yeah, just about, about things. And then we were less precious to the point where you said, let's just rent this house out. Like let's do it now. Because there's 600 families that lost their homes in the Malibu area. Who could use a place to. And we talked to a brilliant real estate agent friend and right away she brought a couple over who had just had a baby.

Tina Payne: US family.

Dave Payne: And they were super cool and they were front runner customers. You know, they saw me wearing much front runner.

Tina Payne: Which was so crazy Jersey. 

Dave Payne: And uh, and they had just purchased something the week before. And so we rented the house to them for six months. The insurance company paid for everything up front. So basically right away we're like, oh my God, the trip is covered.

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Cuz they would, that's our budget. 

Tina Payne: They said to us, they said, we can give you the whole six month lease upfront cuz the insurance is paying while we rebuild. And Dave and I looked at each other and we were like, we're gonna [00:29:00] do this. We have to do this now. And there was like a push out the door. I don't think it's actually.

Dave Payne: They were moving in in one month. We had one month to prepare. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: So that's one of the reasons we took the LR3. It wasn't like we were gonna go shopping for a truck and build, build it out. And uh, we had a tundra we could have taken, which I think would've been too big in the too colonial cities. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Dave Payne: We had a very old series. We would not have taken that. 

Tina Payne: No, that's like, like driving a sewing machine.

Dave Payne: A fancy scout that would not have made sense on the road. 

Tina Payne: Yeah.

Dave Payne: And uh, yeah, that those were our choices, I think. 

Tina Payne: So the LR3 was the choice and. We had a month and we were like, let's go south. We're gonna do, we're gonna do.

Scott Brady: I remember you

Tina Payne: And let's go south.

Scott Brady: I remember you said that you didn't know where you were gonna go along Point. Tina Payne: You didn't really know. No. And, and Dave had like picked out a couple towns along the way in Mexico and Guatemala and Nicaragua and Central America and then South America a little bit. Places we wanted. Cause we wanted to actually live in these places and not just pass through for a few days. So the plan was to actually live in some of these cities that we thought would be great to explore for at least a [00:30:00] month at a time. 

Scott Brady: Oh, I see. Yeah. 

Tina Payne: So we planned it for like six months. We're gonna go south to see how far we get. We had a loose plan of, we're going to probably ship the vehicle back from Panama.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Just because of the Darien gap and, and if we wanna do, you know, south America, we'll do that another way. So the plan was to get to, at the time, I mean we were like Ecuador bust, I think.

Dave Payne: Right? We took the LR3, we put front runner gear on it and awning a tent. We had a fridge, we had a toilet, we had expander chairs, we had a drawer system. We had our four duffle bags, our computers, you know, some camera gear. And that was pretty much it. One of the drawers in the drawer system, they were locking. We had our like computer and camera stuff, and one had camping. And we lived out of it just fine. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: For, for, well, four, four and a half months was the, was the trip.

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: So we lived in Oaxaca for a month, which is fantastic. Oh, it was the highlight of the trip. 

Tina Payne: My heart is there. I think if you had asked me before the trip like, where do you think you're gonna, you know, most connect with or love the most? And I had the sense that [00:31:00] the further south we went and the more exotic it got, that's what would appeal to me the most. But having lived in Oaxaca, I have to say my heart is in Oaxaca. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: It is just the most. The food, the people.

Dave Payne: The culturally, it actually got more.

Tina Payne: The music.

Dave Payne: It actually got more generic. The further south. 

Tina Payne: Yes, you go. That was my experience. You end up in Panama, you're like, I'm in Florida. So, so the best part, absolutely the best part is the closest to us.

Tina Payne: Yes. 

Dave Payne: And it's the least sort of explored or, or almost known about, or seems the most foreboding. Everyone will gladly hop on a plane to Costa Rica, but people aren't gonna hop on a plane and go to Juan Juto, or.

Tina Payne: Which you should, or by the way.

Dave Payne: Mexico City or.

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You know what I'm saying? Like.

Scott Brady: So help people know where Oaxaca is in reference.

Dave Payne: But south of Mexico City, maybe about a five hour and it's on the coast. Well, so Oaxaca is like a state.

Tina Payne: Big province. 

Dave Payne: Part of it's on the coast, but we stayed in Oaxaca City. 

Scott Brady: Okay. 

Dave Payne: That's where, what's the movie, Coco? 

Tina Payne: Yes. 

Dave Payne: It's sort of like that Pixar movie, like if that's sort of, that's basically where it took place. 

Tina Payne: I swear to God It's like Coco, [00:32:00] 

Dave Payne: It's where the, it's the fountain of all the culture in Mexico. It's all the great food, the best food. 

Tina Payne: The food’s amazing. 

Dave Payne: All the Molay, the, the, the Neves, the, they have this ice cream there that is off the hook nuts. That, that, that doesn't exist in America. 

Tina Payne: It's it's street ice cream. 

Dave Payne: It is unbelievable. Um, we, we figured our, our tour was all about the people and the food. 

Tina Payne: Yeah, yeah.

Dave Payne: You know, the camping was like almost a, a second or a third or a fourth even, you know, as, as a prior. 

Scott Brady: That's the key thing about Overland travel is that you can overland around the world and never camp and still be an overlander course. You don't. Of course, yeah. You don't have to four-wheel, no. 

Dave Payne: Right. 

Scott Brady: You don't have to off-road, you don't have to camp. Uh, and you can still very much be overlanding and I think we actually.

Dave Payne: Felt the gear. No, it wasn't a hindrance. Like we never got robbed because of the gear, but we definitely felt like we stood out or we definitely looked like here the tourist, cuz you. And even though the LR3 is small, it didn't have a ton of gear hanging off of it.

Tina Payne: And we weren't particularly flashy looking. 

Dave Payne: No. But it didn't have two jerrycans, which we never touched. One had fuel, one had water. What? Which is, I guess, I think when you head out into an unknown, you want feel safe. 

Scott Brady: Course, of course. [00:33:00]

Tina Payne:  Right. Feeling prepared. 

Dave Payne: But we never once even began to reach for either of those things.

Tina Payne: Yeah, no. 

Scott Brady: And then there's good infrastructure. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. And then if you looked in the car, if kind of peer in, you'd see some duffle bags, but you couldn't see the drawer system. So we were pretty low, low key. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: I think, but you're right. We uh.

Scott Brady: And did you guys do some language immersion or did you tried.

Tina Payne: So I went to, yeah, I went to Spanish classes. I took the kids to Spanish classes. I was convinced I was gonna come back. Hables espanol, like brilliantly, so embarrassed. It's so bad. I, I cannot.

Dave Payne: It's so easy to travel with apps. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Right. 

Dave Payne: And so you can book anything. You can use your eye overlander to just see if that place is safe. If you want to camp in the weather.

Tina Payne: And too many people. Speak English. 

Scott Brady: Thank you. 

Tina Payne: And so when I would say, you know, Yo necesito practicarme espanol, and they'd say, I need to practice my English . And you're like, no. 

Dave Payne: And you default to the easy thing, which is Sure English. 

Tina Payne: Sure English. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. Um, and it's so easy to travel in a bubble. So the important thing for us is how to get outta the bubble. Like how do you just not stay with the us in our kids, in our little car? And how do you get out and try to, it's hard to try to actually meet people cuz you are a tourist. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, yeah. 

Tina Payne: Right. 

Dave Payne: So you can't go to the museum and like befriend the, the ticket taker at the museum and, and have them invite you over for dinner cuz that's actually what you really want.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Right. 

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Dave Payne:  So it's important for us to kind of figure out a way to meet [00:34:00] people, but. Tina Payne: And what helped that was the duration in the places, right. So that if you are there, not just for a few days. Yeah. And like in Oaxaca, we were staying just in little neighborhood outside of Oaxaca City. And we had met this family that were the extended family of the guy who was owning the Airbnb that we had chosen. And this Airbnb was this beautiful little hacienda that he was from Oaxaca. He had met a girl who was American. They, um, lived in Washington, Washington state, like outside of Seattle and had this beautiful family home that he'd built there. But when we arrived, it was his sister, her kids, his brother, the grandmother, everyone was there when we arrived at the Airbnb. And they became family.

Dave Payne: Like a host family.

Tina Payne: Family, friends. 

Dave Payne: And we, yeah, wasn't just giving an Airbnb cue

Tina Payne: A [00:35:00] Cha's house down the street and he introduced the kids to the cultural center where they took trumpet classes or maruba classes or art. And we got to be immersed in this. And I think that's a large part of why my hearts in Oaxaca is because I feel like I have family there to a degree in that they were so welcoming. And it also reminded me a lot of the South African mentality. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Like South Africa is a place where I really feel like. People open their homes to strangers. 

Scott Brady: They do. 

Tina Payne: And you don't have to call ahead or, you know, I mean, you drop in them people in South Africa and that's just completely expected and you can, you know, drop in and people can drop in on you. And I felt like Mexico and Oaxaca particularly had the same, it felt, it felt very much like home to me. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Because, and the family, the family structure there is so impressive. 

Tina Payne: It's so impressive. And then, and then it's also that whole sort of mother to [00:36:00] one, mother to all. So, you know, you are instantaneously family. Like I remember Jack had his 11th birthday, our oldest had his 11th birthday there, and Cha in came over and. Laughing at where I had put the pinata and he was like, no, no. And he went and like tied it to a lamppost and stood on the roof. And he was like, that's not where you put the pin. And he was like, oh, and what a gringo party. Just the one pinata. . He's like a Mexican party. We've got like 10 pinatas. Like, what's wrong with you people?  And they all.

Dave Payne: We were super embarrassed because we purchased a flan and we couldn't find, we love flan, we couldn't find a place to get flan. And Tina found one at a Walmart. And then our, our sort of friend host family, they were very, uh.

Tina Payne: Judgemental.

Dave Payne: Yeah. We didn't ask them where to get the right flan, so somehow we ended up at a Walmart.

Tina Payne: And then I got one at the Kulah market. 

Dave Payne: Is that the one that fell outta the fridge? 

Tina Payne: Yeah. And it was so sad. 

Dave Payne: So, so yeah. Like I said, our trip was based on food and the food disasters. , I, I'll remember like the day Kennedy was shot when that flan.

Tina Payne: When that flower hit the fridge floor.

Dave Payne: Like 9/11 [00:37:00] in our house crying over spill mill.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: And then we, we stayed in Marta, which apparently we read a stat that it's the second safest city in North America after Quebec City. And we love Marta. It's not on the ocean, it's the capitol of the Yucatan and fantastic. That's where we.

Tina Payne: Amazing. Yeah. And, and then when we asked why Meda is so safe, a friend who had made there explained to us that all the cartels send the children and the grandparents to Merida. And as you know. You don't mess with the family. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, that's right. 

Tina Payne: So no one messes with Meda. Yeah. Medas like the place.

Dave Payne: There's a couple private schools and. you know, nice, um, neighborhoods.

Scott Brady: It's like the safe zone, you know? 

Tina Payne: It is.

Scott Brady: Interesting. So you went from there into Belize? 

Dave Payne: We did, we did, uh, then our Land Rover broke down. We had a, we had the air suspension, which we didn't swap out to coils ahead of time. We just thought, well, if it happens, it happens, we'll deal with it. And it happened and we were stuck riding, uh, with the truck. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You know, on the, on the stumps or the, on the.

Tina Payne: It was not comfortable.

Dave Payne: But we, yeah. Belize, which we didn't love. Uh, it was very, it felt [00:38:00] not scammy. It just, we know the stories of like McAfee and like, it just, yeah. It just felt like everyone was running from something and it didn't.

Tina Payne: It was very strange. Cause we didn't.

Dave Payne: We didn't go there to die. We didn't snorkel, we didn't do any ocean things. We were just, we were in London a bit.

Tina Payne: But it's also a country surrounded Latina countries and yet they speak English there. Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And that's the language. 

Scott Brady: And they're, they do transactions with the dollar. 

Tina Payne: Yes. And it didn't feel, it just didn't, culturally, I, I didn't know like you couldn't glob onto like, what is Belize? 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: It felt very touristy almost. 

Scott Brady: It is.

Tina Payne: You know, and.

Scott Brady: It is.

Tina Payne: And it. It was just strange. Like a lot of like women in like burla blondes with blonde children. 

Dave Payne: And a lot of Mennonite. A lot of orphanages. It was just a weird, it a weird thing. 

Tina Payne: It felt culty. It felt culty and it felt strange. 

Dave Payne: Well, we met a cool Land Rover guy from South Africa who had a shop who couldn't, who couldn't fix our truck. So we start, we're starting on our journey now of meeting people through having to get our vehicle. 

Tina Payne: Well, I should also, I.

Dave Payne: He was by the border, right? [00:39:00] 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tina Payne: In, in San Agio. 

Scott Brady: Oh yeah. Yes. I've been there. And it's, that guy.

Tina Payne: Is San Agio. 

Scott Brady: That guy is so funny because I'm talking to him and he's talking about the Camel Trophy and he's, he was very judgmental of our vehicles. Right. That they weren't they, that they weren't Land Rovers.

Tina Payne: Toyotas. 

Scott Brady: And I'm like, I know this guy from somewhere. And I said, man, I said, I know I have met you somewhere. And I'm expecting him to say, well, I was in the Camel Trophy, or I was whatever. And I'm like, did you ever work at a Land Rover dealership in Southern California?

Dave Payne: Yes. 

Scott Brady: And it was like, I just like took like deflated.

Dave Payne: The veil.

Scott Brady:  Deflated.

Dave Payne: Yeah. He, he the service center. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah. He was like a car salesman for 40 years. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. 

Scott Brady: You know? And at least it helped me understand like the context of this, you know, that. 

Tina Payne: No, he was very helpful. And then actually when we were broken down, we broke down in a beautifully picturesque place. It's called Punta. It's passed to Loom right at the end then. I mean, if you were going to break down anywhere, that was the place to do it. We actually got a hack, a trick. From Justin at Lucky Eight. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. [00:40:00] 

Tina Payne: I called him and he was like, okay, you, you're gonna be able to trick the suspension in order to get out of there without the tow truck , because that was basic.

Dave Payne: You basically remove a certain fuse and you jack up the front and the back and you trick the computer to thinking it's fine. 

Scott Brady: Right. 

Dave Payne: And then basically you have, as long as the leak is Yes. Until it like lowers again and they have to do the trick again. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: So we'd get like, you know, three or four hours of driving out of it until it was kind of undrivable again. Then you eventually do the hack. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Jack it up in the front and the back, you know.

Tina Payne: Because the choice at the time was either to go back to Merida.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Backwards or to carry on and get to Guatemala City where there was a Land Rover dealership there. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: We ended up doing the bumpy ride to Guatemala, I must say. Like we saw, I mean, throughout Mexico we saw all the ruins and it was.

Scott Brady: They're incredible. 

Tina Payne: Spectacular. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, they're incredible. 

Tina Payne: My children will say they were ruined with ruins, because we saw all of them. And then Taka in Guatemala is just so, it's so Indiana Jones where you literally walking through the jungle and happen upon a temple. It's, it's just incredible. And [00:41:00] yeah. And then we got to Guatemala and we got to Guatemala City and the Land Rover dealership was just so expensive and they, and when I told them the trick and I was showing them and that they had to jack it up from the chassis and I mean all these mechanics just were like fainting with this idea that you could trick the electronics. We actually met another friend of a friend. We met a guy named Byron Sanchez who was friends with Angela James Brown. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: He put us in touch in Antigua, Guatemala with the most phenomenal dude named Bull who. I mean if anyone loves Land Rovers, he has a Land Rover heaven. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You would say, well it's a shop, but it's almost like a graveyard.


But they probably all work. Yeah. But it's maybe 30, 40 Land Rovers of all sorts. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: And Bill was um, he took one look at the LR3 and said, yeah, I don't touch the ones with computers. That'll be my son. Willie will do that. , I'm not gonna touch anything with electronics. 

Dave Payne: No. Willie had just taken some air suspension, whatever [00:42:00] the pods or whatever out of another truck. A guy who was converting to coils and he sold us those super cheap and put 'em in. It took a week or two, but his door. But you were Antigua for a week. Yeah. Whatever. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. This was actually, we were Antigua, which was amazing. We were they during. Course Simon Sane, which was.

Scott Brady: Oh my God.

Tina Payne: Insane, insane, um, religious, um, festival Bill's daughter actually did these tours where she'd take you in a defender to Paka volcano.

Scott Brady: Oh, wow. 

Tina Payne: And we then you get on horseback or you can walk it. Dave walked it. We, I went on a horse. And you go up to the lava and we roasted marshmallows on hot lava, which I've ruined my children. I mean, I've def definitely ruined them. They can't roast. We're we're, we're camping now. And they're like, where's the lava? 

Dave Payne: Where's the lava for the marsh? Use wood . 

Scott Brady: You get this perfect crispiness, right? 

Dave Payne: Yeah. Right. Nothing like a lava roasted.

Scott Brady: And then you guys continued south. And what did you find were some of the highlights after you left Guatemala? You went into, uh, then you went. Into Honduras. Did you [00:43:00] go through Copan? You did come, did you do the.

Dave Payne: But then we popped back out and then went back through Guatemala into El Salvador. 

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Dave Payne: We met at. 

Tina Payne: So there was three borders in one day. That was an interesting day. 

Dave Payne: Yeah, so, so if you were to drive, if you wanted to drive from Los Angeles to Panama, you could, it's like a little bit further than driving from Los Angeles to New York City.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Dave Payne: So you could probably do it in three or four or five days, you know, if you were putting these eight, 10 hour days. But we always tried to keep the days to four or five hours. We didn't wanna make it like we're doing this long haul trip expedition. We always tried to drive in daylight. We never did a, from city to city at night. Never. We just were like, there's no reason to. 

Tina Payne: There's no point. 

Dave Payne: We found that that was our biggest day. It was an eight hour day, which for us at that time, that was huge. You know . Yeah. To get through the three borders and or the, yeah, the in and out and in El Salvador, we stayed in El Alto. Uh,  which was, we also found that a lot of the surf towns where there were expats, you know, who were there for the waves.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: They always usually had the right blend of culture. 

Tina Payne: The authentic, like there's a local authentic [00:44:00] kindness to a place. And then there's also an ease of navigation where, where there's a little bit of, because it's a surf town, there's a little bit more you can access the local people. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Much more than, than not, I think, I don't know that we'd have the same opinion of El Salvador if we weren't in this little surf town.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You know, so we're at this hotel. Yeah. And, um, uh, we're out by the pool and, uh, a guy runs to the pool and he's like, who has the truck with the California plates? Like speaking very, really good English. Yeah. Um, but he's El Salvador. And we're like, oh, that's us. Like if we don't know if we getting in trouble  or he's gonna rob us, and he's like, oh, I'm Oscar. I own the hotel. It turns out Oscar used to live in Los Angeles. Oscar used to run a neon sign repair company, but he has since moved back and started a family in his hometown. So he owns his hotel in a coffee shop, but he goes, awesome cuz we got now a firsthand sort of El Salvadorian experience about the Civil War, about how he ended up in LA when he was 14. Um, and he took us out, um, [00:45:00] spearfishing the next day. 

Scott Brady: Amazing. 

Dave Payne: The boys and I, and uh, unbelievable. And they had an amazing time. We caught so much fish and Jack was underwater with a spear and just like just a friend, like a, just a dude we met. So that was, that was actually one of the highlights of the trip to connecting.

Tina Payne: And he's become a good friend. And, and I think also the boys, they got a Goliath grouper. 

Scott Brady: Oh yeah. 

Tina Payne: The fish was gigantic. Literally bigger than Ford. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: It was bigger than our younger kid. Yeah, I know. It was a spectacular time. And again, it was. Sense of just like you felt like you had family or friends there. Like I feel like Oscar's just a part of our family. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And we shared so much and it was such a short time, but it was intensely meaningful and memorable. And I, we have, who is the same age as so, right. 

Dave Payne: We have, we have friends that are experts on neon science or scholars in that, in that space. And they just wrote a definitive book about neon science. We just sent that to Oscar. 

Scott Brady: Oh. 

Dave Payne: Last week. So we're, you know, we maintain these, try to maintain these friendships around the world in Oaxaca. One of the reasons we wanted to stay there was for the [00:46:00] mescal and we tried all the different distilleries and at some point, I was like, I gotta find what people consider the best mescal while we're here. And I looked online and there was a list of like, Brooklyn bartenders say, this is the best mescal. I'm like, Brooklyn.

Tina Payne: The hipsters. 

Dave Payne: That must be good. And then we decided to drive to the ranch cuz they, they had no website or something. It wasn't open to the public. But we drove there and we parked and we saw them brewing the mescal. We saw the big vats, we saw them burning the, the cactus, the, the mag, the roots, the, yeah. And, but none of them spoke English at all. And our Spanish is so terrible. , I didn't even know how to say a Dou a tour or, you know, tasty mescal, . We didn't know how to say. We went to taste it. And so we walked around, the kids were playing with the goats and the chickens and, and we hung out there a little bit. And at some point a woman came up who said, Oh, do you want to, you know, try mescal in broken English? And we're like, oh, we would love to thank you. And she brought us into the house, like the residential house on the property. And a guy, a guy walks out and his name Eduardo, but they call him Lalo. And he spoke perfect English, also lived in la, was a gardener for five years. Saved up all his money so he could take his family's recipe. He does [00:47:00] ancestral mescal and started this distillery. So he proceeds to feed us mescal.

Tina Payne: And then also tortillas that made from the corn on his farm and a coffee that I've never tasted such an amazing coffee that he was brewing just on a fire. There was like a sweet with cinnamon and spices. It was one of the most magical day. 

Dave Payne: So to this day our, our favorite sipping mezcal is this Lalo Kira, which you can find Lalo. 

Scott Brady: Lalo, Kira.

Dave Payne: You can find it very randomly. Yeah. It's had one restaurant in LA where you can walk out with a bottle. 

Tina Payne: There's a Oaxacan restaurant called Marre, and they actually sell the bottles and they sell. And I think they even have like an exclusive on one of, because his big thing and what we learned with him was he was like, yeah, the smokey taste of mys. Is actually just a marketing ploy and it really shouldn't taste. That's a mistake. 

Dave Payne: Well, he mistake, he called it a mistake. 

Tina Payne: He says it's a mistake. Mistake for to taste smokey because then you won't be able to tell which maga, which cactus plant you're sipping because it masks the [00:48:00] taste of the plant. And so it should be clear and it should not have a smokey taste. You should be able to taste that cactus like that. Maga you should be able to taste it. And so.

Dave Payne: I was super upset cuz I love the smoke. 

Tina Payne: But yeah, it was very.

Scott Brady: I like the smokiness too. In fact, that's like my new jam is like a, yeah, is like a mescal negron. Oh, nice. It's, it's kind of, it's kind of magic. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. So we, so, um, and then in Nicaragua, we stayed in San Juan Del Sir for a month. Uh, that was fantastic.


We have friends there that own a cigar.

Tina Payne: James Brown. 

Scott Brady: Right. And, and they've been in the community for a long time. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: They lived, they were in Antigua for a while and, and we met them at the first Overland Expo that we participated in, or like the third or second Overland Expo there ever was. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: We met Anne, Jim, James. Yeah. So they've been friends almost as long as you.

Tina Payne: And our kids. Our kids, Jack, our oldest and their son Parker, were I think about four or five years old when they met. And so it was great when we were staying there. I mean, Jack and Parker could hang together and it was one of the first places where they could actually go to school. The boys went [00:49:00] to. In San Juan, sir, for, I think it was maybe a month. That was just a lovely time. We got to see Angie and James have a factory in Estle where they have Ave Negra, which is the.

Dave Payne: Shout out to Black label. That's the name of their, yeah. 

Tina Payne: Black labels. The name of their, their cigar brand. But they also have a tobacco factory where they roll cigars for other labels.

Scott Brady: Oh sure.

Tina Payne:  And so Black Sheep is actually their tobacco company. Nice. And their factory in Estee. Yeah. It was interesting too, cuz Est Lee's obviously very, very different from San Juande Surf. San Juande Sur is a little surf town. There's a lot of expats there. Um, it's on the ocean. Estee is very much all working Town. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: And it's where a lot of the tobacco stuff and factories are. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: So that was, that was fascinating. 

Scott Brady: And then you guys complete this trip. You get to, you get to Panama, also known as Florida.

Dave Payne: Yeah. We, we were a little, I wouldn't say we were over landed out, but being the, the male responsible member of the vehicle and keeping everything from being, [00:50:00] let's say, stolen or whatever I was worried about or breaking down, you know, I just, I was a little stressed out, like, just always, I wouldn't say I was worrying about the truck, but the truck was, you know, it couldn't say it was the heart of everything. So when we got to Panama, we were, we, we could have shipped it to, into South America. We had a, we had now six weeks left. Or we could have shipped it back to, um, Los Angeles and the prices were kind of the same to ship it to South America or ship it back. And we just felt at that time, let's just bail on the truck. Let's just finish, let's, let's, let's just, the things we wanted to see in South America were kind of far apart also. So to, to do that sort of in an overlanding way, we would've needed another 2, 2, 3 months. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. And we only had six weeks, so we didn't feel like we would be able to see everything we wanted to see. In that time if we were driving it. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: So we, we also, I will say this, Panama was a huge surprise to us. I did not think I would like Panama. I did not. You know, I loved Panama City, I loved Costco, Viejo, the old park. Scott Brady: Totally. 

Tina Payne: It is so beautiful. 

Scott Brady: Great restaurants. 

Tina Payne: I love Exactly. Great restaurants, great food, [00:51:00] great people.

Scott Brady: Totally. 

Tina Payne: And so Panama is actually a little bit of a surprise cuz you are expecting it to be more of a Miami while there is that aspect to it. And it's very easy to navigate. Of course. Totally. Because of that,  but at the same time.

Dave Payne: I think it's very western. So after four and a half months of not being in a mall or something.

Tina Payne: Right.

Dave Payne: Suddenly that was like, they're also at a mall. 

Scott Brady: They're, they're like, really? Well, they're squared away. 

Tina Payne: Yes. 

Scott Brady: I mean that organized. 

Tina Payne: Yes. 

Scott Brady: The Panama Canal has to be organized right. And squared away.

Tina Payne: Right. 

Scott Brady: And I think that permeates who the society in that region of Right. Panama. It's like, it's just pretty squared away.

Tina Payne: We took the old timey train from Cologne to Panama City. It was fantastic. We were the only ones on this turn of the Century train. It was the train that was more or less built to go along the Panama Canal.

Tina Payne: It was magnificent. 

Dave Payne: And, uh, yeah, it was great. And then Panama, we'll go back to Panama. Yeah. It's, uh, it's easy to get around and there's pockets you can get lost in. You know, like the, the Boca del Toro region in the north part. 

Tina Payne: It's fantastic. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. And so, yeah, so we decided to fly into, into South America. We did carte hena. [00:52:00] We did, um, Bogota. We did Lima. Lima. We did Cusco. We did Picchu Picchu. We had a great time in Allene Tombo, which is a little village near on along the, the, it's like a train stop away from Machu Picchu.

Scott Brady: Right. 

Dave Payne: We ended up spending an extra few weeks there. We had, we really? Yeah. 

Tina Payne: We were meant to be there for like three days, but this town, it has running water like through the whole town. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: All the time. 

Dave Payne: Uh, in the streets. 

Tina Payne: In the, in the streets, in the little, it's like little, I don't know, aqueducts. It's the only, actually, the only Aztec Village that's like still pretty much happening as a.

Scott Brady: Oh, gotcha.

Dave Payne: Working village as a, working very, very narrow streets, cars can't fit in them.

Tina Payne: All cobblestone. 

Dave Payne: And, and also we met someone there and then yes, because we befriended Wendy, um, it felt easier to stay there. So Wendy is an American who came there in the seventies and started a little backpacking tourism business with her husband. And, uh, she ends up now she's owning or owns the, the kind of the fancy hotel that's built into the train station. Scott Brady: Yeah, yeah. 

Dave Payne: Um, and uh, so Wendy was [00:53:00] fantastic. She's an artist now and um.

Tina Payne: And she lives in Lima most of the time, but her son has an amazing restaurant in this little town in the Sacred Valley, which Alan Tambo, and it's called.

Dave Payne: Chink Ccho.

Tina Payne: And it's all authentic Homestyle Peruvian food. 

Scott Brady: Oh, wow. 

Tina Payne: Because what would happen is because everyone's going to match a. A lot of the restaurants in this little town would make pizza terrible, terrible pizza. 

Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: For the tourists. And her son was like, you know, we all go home to these amazing Peruvian homecooked meals that our mothers make. Like why are we feeding these people pizza? Yeah. We should beef showing them that food. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Tina Payne: And that was what was amazing about his restaurant. And yeah, she, they have a distillery on, in the hotel at They have a little farm. Yeah. And a school and a distillery. And there's a guy making gins and things, but from Andean plants.

Scott Brady: Botanical, sure. 

Tina Payne: Botanical, yeah. So it's all like [00:54:00] indigenous, yummy ingredients and he's making like a mockin or a mock. It's unbelievable what these people are doing. They're so special. Just amazing. Special. Yeah.

Scott Brady:  Let me ask you this trip, a trip like this with your family is usually pretty transformative. So, What did you feel like that you guys learned as a family at the end of this? What did you take away? 

Tina Payne: Well, what was really interesting is when we got back six months later in California, we had lockdown for Covid. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: So Dave and I looked at each other and we looked at everyone and we're like, not again. No, no, no, no, no. We've done this. We've done the homeschooling , we've done the close quarters and family time. We're like, no, because when we got back everyone said, you know, how was it in such close quarters for so long? And the homeschooling and everything else? And we were, we didn't know. We'd get to say, you'll see for yourself without the exotic travel , it's not all that.

Dave Payne: In hindsight, we wouldn't have done the homeschooling. So we were very, yes, we were very like structured, like, all right, they have to, they have to follow along with their friends back home. They have to get through it. This math by this week. So academy, a [00:55:00] lot of the days were pulling aside where there was good internet and just having them get through their homework and making sure they were reading stuff and there were. Fights and tension and just sort of like, it just.

Tina Payne: Which in hindsight, like a lot of the days, not worth, it couldn't start until they'd finished their schoolwork. And really we should have tossed that from the start. Like they were learning way more. 

Scott Brady: Of course, yeah. 

Tina Payne: That they would have in a classroom, they would've caught up just fine. Uh, my advice would be like, just ditch the school side of it. The, the school's just a part of their life education for that amount of time, for six months at that stage. I mean, fifth grade and second grade, you know, if they can count to a thousand and read a book , like, just get over yourself. Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: They'll catch up. You know, and so I think we would've ditched that. I also feel like, cuz you know, we ended, we actually, we, we also got to do the Amazon, we got to do the Galapagos things on people's bucket lists and our own bucket lists. But what happens is, I think while you're doing it all at once, You become super [00:56:00] complacent.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Like, we're like, oh, can't process. Not the beautiful colonial town. Or we were sitting in the Galapagos and I'm like, guys, we're in the Galapagos. Like most people, this is the destination. Like this is part of our trip, but this is the destination. Like we need to, you know, savor, we're in the Galapagos. And so I think even my advice would be why do it all at once? Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Maybe it's better. You know, in America with kids, they get three months off during the summer, go live somewhere for three months. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Come back at a time each year you could go and really take advantage of a place for a good month or two months or three months and not have to, because even, even though we gave ourselves the time of staying in these places for longer than a month, I think you probably get more value out. Breaking it up so that you're not just getting complacent or get, you're not, it's not special enough. I, I don't know. How would you explain it, Dave? 

Dave Payne: No, that's good. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. Okay. [00:57:00] Yeah. 

Scott Brady: You guys have, you've been together a long time and you've traveled together a lot. Tina, what do you find most impressive about Dave as a traveler? What, what have you learned from Dave? 

Tina Payne: Well, that's number one. That was an amazing thing. I think I, I, I'd never really thought about it, but looking back, wherever we were and whenever we decided we were moving on, Dave and I were never at odds that way. Like, we were both ready to like, okay, we're done here, or we're on to the next thing. It was never like, oh, no, I really wanna stay much longer. Why do we need to go? We were totally in sync. I think the whole trip, we, we always felt like enough time was spent where it was spent. Dave is an incredibly mature and patient human being. And I have none of that. . I am the most impatient person I think with.

Dave Payne: But that's the joy about traveling with Tina. She's not afraid to ask questions if there's a line. We were [00:58:00] in Paris once and uh, there was like, we were going to Notre Dame or something. There was like one really long line and then one really short line. I walk right into the long line. I'm like, this is where I belong. The long line  and Tina's like, why, why would, we don't even know what the short line is, let's go to the short line. And I'm Mr. American nice guy. I'm like, I don't think we should stand in the long line. We go to the short line. And it was just a short line , but literally it was like there were 400 people in one line and five in another. And, and a lot of people would think, well that is for special people.

Scott Brady: Right? 

Dave Payne: The five person line is for the people who have the tickets that are more money. And yeah, I just know that next my travel sense is like, I belong in that line,  and Tina believes she belongs in that line. 

Tina Payne: I’m special. 

Dave Payne: And actually that, that's a, that's a metaphor. Or, or it's a, it's a real story if I'm saying it. It is a, she's easy to travel with and that she's happy to not, not cut in line, but get to the, you know, like, like, don't be a don't don't be a lemming. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, exactly. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. Don't be a lemming. 

Tina Payne: Like, let's, you don't have to follow, you don't have to follow, you can try something new. And then I think that's also like, we would always find like amazing, [00:59:00] like, this is the best tucko place, or this is the best place for flying because I'm just never afraid of the hole in the wall. In fact, that's actually the attraction. Like, if it looks too sort of, there's not enough locals in here that food's gonna suck. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, that's right. You know, that's the truth. 

Tina Payne: So, so I think we, we compliment each other that way, and I think that's why we work together well is because we are so different. I, I shoot from the hip to answer your questions, Scott, about what have you learned from Dave? Oftentimes sleeping on it is a really good idea.  sleeping on it is a really, really good idea. 

Scott Brady: Any big decisions? 

Tina Payne: Yes. Just give it. The night. Give it the night, give it the night, give it the night. Give it it's time. You don't have to answer Right the second. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And so I think that's, that's something I've definitely. Definitely learned from Dave's temperament. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: Which is so different from mine.

Scott Brady: How about you Dave? What have, what has Tina taught you the most [01:00:00] in all your travels together? 

Dave Payne: Well, no, just that start, get in the short line. Get in the short line. . . Yeah.

Scott Brady: Don't be afraid to question the norm. 

Dave Payne: No, I mean, Tina walked around, um, Mexico, she's not shy about giving people nicknames. She's not shy about trying out her Spanish. So she run around the first half of our trip telling everyone she was horny. And she didn't realize that she was using caliente wrong.

Tina Payne: That's, yes. So that's exactly what happened. And I went.

Scott Brady: fantastic. 

Tina Payne: I went to a, I went to a Spanish class and married her my first Spanish class. And I walked in and I said, Yo soy caliente. And she said, I don't think you mean to say that. I was like, yes I do. I am really hot. It's like boiling, aren't ya? And she's like, And you would say that by saying  I take heat . Um, because when you say your , what you're telling people is that you are horny . And I was like, oh my God. I, in the last four weeks have told the lady at the ice cream shop . And, and the thing is, I also.

Dave Payne: I'm, I'm the  standing next door with the big smile on my face and my wife tell is telling everyone [01:01:00] she's horny. Apparently I'm not satisfied.

Tina Payne: As it also didn't even look like I was just some crazy gringo, didn't know what she was saying because by that stage I had quite a good tan on.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Tina Payne: I'm dark hair. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And I was really working on like a really good Spanish accent. So I literally looked like a girl who was just telling everyone how horny I was.

Dave Payne: So Tina's not shy to dive into any experience, which is great.

Tina Payne: But sometimes it would be. To sleep on it or take the Spanish class first.

Scott Brady: Oh, it's, but it's so good to learn those lessons from each other. And speaking of lessons, uh, we we're gonna come into the last couple questions and some comments as the podcast comes to a close. But one of the things we really love to ask is what advice then would you give to the listeners? What, what have you guys learned in all of your travels if, if someone was coming new. And a family wants to go do what you guys are about to do, what would be the couple pieces of advice that you would tell them? It sounds like don't worry about the schoolwork too much. 

Tina Payne: There's that, [01:02:00] and I would also say to be open and optimistic and to there's, you know, we had a lot of questions during the trip. Oh my God, you're taking your family through Mexico. How dangerous. Isn't it dangerous? We were never met throughout the trip without hospitality and warmth.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Tina Payne: That's how we were met. And I think it has a lot to do with also your attitude to it. If you're gonna be skeptical, if you're gonna be really weary or leery, or if you're gonna be super flashy. I mean, Dave and I joke all the time with some of these enormous rigs. I. Some of those countries, I don't think you can go there because they're gonna think you're coming to take over the country. I mean, you literally look.

Scott Brady: Looks like you're invading.

Dave Payne: Half the trucks we saw at Overland Expo. I'm thinking, I'm like, Nicaragua wouldn't even let that into the country. 

Tina Payne: No. That just looks like you're overthrowing the government.

Dave Payne: You're gonna take a drone into Nicaragua. You have to One of those trucks into Nicaragua.

Scott Brady: Exactly. 

Tina Payne: And I think that openness gave us all the [01:03:00] amazing, the meaningful experiences we had was that we were not afraid. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And there was nothing to be afraid of. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: I mean, of course be sensible. We didn't drive at night. We didn't need to go and spend three days in Tepic or in places that, you know, have a reputation for.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Tina Payne:  But I, I saw a good one on Facebook while we were traveling. Someone said, you know, is it safe to drive through Mexico? And someone said, are you joining a cartel ? Because if you're not joining a cartel yes, it's super safe to drive through Mexico. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: So I think that would be my advice is to, you just need to get out the door. I know how hard getting out the door is, and we had that push, but the buyers.

Dave Payne: There's no perfect time to buy a house, there's no perfect time to have a kid and there's no perfect time to just start driving. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: And you're never gonna get it all lined up. No, no, no. You just gotta know that like, I mean, maybe with, if you have children, you have to know that if they're a little older, if they're in high school, they're not gonna wanna sit in a vehicle with you.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Um, the trip that we did, we did some off-roading stuff, but we never purposely planned [01:04:00] on getting lost. You could do it at any vehicle. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Any two-wheel drive vehicle. I mean, we drove down to Laep Paz, it's all paved. We got on a ferry to Maitland. It's a, the ferry will take any vehicle.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Uh uh, Mexico is all paved and every road you need to get on between all the major cities.

Tina Payne: Yeah. And once we were in South America, I mean, we didn't even have a vehicle. Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: So, and we managed to do a lot of that. 

Dave Payne: You might be a tent and some water and a satphone for emergencies. Yeah. Cause you are in another country. Don't even really need to camp in between an app and, you know, Airbnbs and there's hotels everywhere and.

Scott Brady: And they're so cheap.

Tina Payne: Yeah. So cheap. 

Scott Brady: And that's where the great food is. Yeah. You know, like nothing that I can cook is gonna match what you're gonna.

Dave Payne: No.

Scott Brady: What you're gonna get in a little shop in Mexico. 

Dave Payne: No. You could take, you could drive in four days or five days of reasonable driving and be in Oaxaca, stay there for a week and drive back in five days. It's a, it's a, it's a overland trip, but it's not this trip where you're like on an expedition and you're there to save the world and go into villages and. Cure cancer or whatever. You're, you're gonna, you're going on a cultural trip and you're gonna see a lot because you're [01:05:00] driving, but you don't need to have the perfect vehicle.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Maybe the lesson is don't wait. 

Dave Payne: No. Do it. When you're, when you ever, you can, like in our case, the opportunity was someone was gonna rent our house. We felt comfortable renting it to them and we suddenly had a budget that made sense. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: You know, the work thing wasn't perfect to, to step away. We found that being a digital nomad is not exactly what it's chopped up to be a.

Tina Payne: Yeah. The world isn't quite ready. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. It's very difficult for, for that. Yeah. 

Scott Brady: The starlink has changed. 

Dave Payne: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: I think that's a huge game changer. 

Dave Payne: Very curious about that for sure. 

Tina Payne: Right. For sure. 

Scott Brady: Another question we love to ask is, or I actually, I love to ask cause I was find new books to read, but. For the two of you, has there been any books that you've read about travel or about anything else that, that you have really resonated with that you'd like to share with the audience?

Dave Payne: Um, if I'm traveling to a region that Paul Throws written about, I'll read one of those books.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: So when I met Tina, I think even before the first time I went to Africa, I read Dark Star Safari and I've been obsessed with this idea of traveling from Cape Town to Cairo.

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: Um, by [01:06:00] vehicle. And we've almost gotten close to figuring out that we, you know, that we were gonna do this. But it's also one of these things, it's just hard with the, with the kids and with the, and also it's.

Scott Brady: It's a hard trip. 

Dave Payne: It's a long, it's a time. It's a lot of time. And, um, dangerous if you do the East Coast, you know? Anyway, that, that, uh, dark star safari is fantastic. We were, uh, supposed to go on, uh, to Tahiti at the trips, the plans changed by, I read his book about Oceana and the Pacific Islands and e kayaked between all these islands. But yeah, he's great. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Amazing writer for sure. 

Tina Payne: And Graham Bell's book you just finished and really enjoyed. 

Dave Payne: Oh, just Graham Bell's book. Yes. I think if you're taking any of these trips, you're gonna do a longer overland trip. Definitely try to suss out a book written about that trip. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: It'll just help dial in, just, you'll go get a real feel of it even before you go and get the real feel of it.

Scott Brady: And I like that, that Graham always has a sense of optimism and he sees the place from a, like, I think a really fair perspective. Yeah. He's a funny writer. 

Dave Payne: And yeah, Graham's books are great cuz he'll, he'll kind of break down what the country's all [01:07:00] about. What currency they use. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: How much gas costs a litre. So you kind of go into it like almost like a, like a lonely planet. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: But then he tells a story about his family and where they camped and if the vehicle broke down and a little. History and politics. It's a nice, a nice blend. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. And how about for you, Tina? 

Tina Payne: I often relied on Dave's researching reading, because Dave has always done this. I, I mean, I remember we were going to Tanzania, he was reading The Greenhills of Kilimanjaro or what, what's it called? 

Dave Payne: Uh, the Hemingway book. 

Tina Payne: Yeah, the Hemingway book. 

Dave Payne: The Snows of Kilimanjaro. 

Tina Payne: Okay. Thank you. 

Dave Payne: Close. 

Tina Payne: There's something with Green Hills too. 

Dave Pane: That might be another short story. 

Tina Payne: I love the book. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not big on.

Dave Payne: Tina's a listener and a talker. 

Scott Brady: Well, you're a storyteller, so he's less than a story reader. Yeah. 

Tina Payne: It's better for Dave to tell me about the books. Love, um, Dave, love it tells me about the books I like. I was joking earlier today, I'm in a book club and my group of book club girls were reading [01:08:00] something called, The English understand wool, it's about 65 pages long. When it arrived in the mail, Dave was like, is this a book for one of the kids? Because, and I do like an audio book. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah. Me too. 

Tina Payne: I do because of, yeah. I'm not a big reader.

Scott Brady: And a lot of time driving, so it's fun to listen to an audio book. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. And I don't, I don't retain the information the same way if I, I'm I, because I think I'm an auditory processor. I, if I hear it, like I can remember a joke for a hundred years Scott Brady: Sure. 

Tina Payne: But if I read it, it's often gone, like, yeah. Just a few weeks later. I don't have the ability to really hold onto the written stuff. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: As much as if Dave tells me what the book's about. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, for sure. In these podcasts, it's, it's, uh, we intentionally avoid talking much.

What you guys do professionally, but I think that it is, it is important to talk a little bit about the tent that you guys have come up with. And I think the [01:09:00] way that you guys relayed the story to me is that you've, you've camped in all of these different ways, roof tents and ground tents and sleeping in the vehicle and, and everything in between. Unat, even, all all.

Tina Payne: Yes. 

Scott Brady: All of it. All of it. 

Dave Payne: We own an Airstream. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yes, exactly. So you guys have experienced a lot of these different ways of camping and, and so I'm gonna pitch it for you be, because again, there's no sponsorship in this podcast of this product, but I like the tent that you guys made. You guys happen to be close friends. But I do feel that this C6 rev tent that you guys have come up with is very, it's very unique. It can be used as a roof tent. There's an accessory that you guys produce that allows it to be used as a fold open roof tent on a on a rack. It can be attached to a full length rack, like a front runner rack. It can be used in the back of a pickup bed. It can be used on the ground. And our team here, Paula, our producer, and Caleb next door. We, we lend out your tent [01:10:00] all the time. I use it personally anytime I'm in a test vehicle. So a lot of times I need to go camping in a test vehicle. I just chuck your tent into the back of it. So it's a, it's a 25 pound tent that folds up into its own case. It's got a, what is it, a four inch thick mattress? 

Dave Payne: Yeah. 

Scott Brady: With a quilted cover on it. , you know, it's 800 bucks. I think it's a really unique product. We've done a video on it. You guys can check it out on our YouTube channel. Talk for just a quick second cuz again, we don't want this to be a sales pitch, but what inspired you guys to make this cuz it's accumulation of a bunch of experience.

Dave Payne: This, it was just traveling for eight years with a traditional rooftop tent. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: And we, we, you know, like anyone, when you're camping and you, you think you're smart, you're just like, wouldn't it be great if you know, and you just have these ideas And at some point we just started. When we started having relationships with factories overseas and started finding some good factories, we just thought, well, let's start, let's just for fun, see if we can make this dream tent.

Tina Payne: I think also, you know, if you think about what is a tent used for? [01:11:00] Primarily, there's like three things. It's a shelter, it's for privacy. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And it's for sleep. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Tina Payne: And I think Dave and I thought, wow, everyone has really addressed the first two. Yeah. But no one addresses comfortable sleep in a tent in that you're just like, it's a given. Oh, you're going camping, you're gonna have a crap night's sleep. You just need to resign yourself to the fact that you're gonna have a.

Dave Payne: Or you're in an rv, or you're in a fancy, you know, clam shut. 

Tina Payne: But as far as a tents concerned air mattress or whatever else, it's just you re, you've resigned, you've settle. It occurred to us, why should you have to settle on not having a comfortable night's sleep?

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Tina Payne: Out in the middle of nowhere. Because if you are going mountain biking the next day, I think a lot of people would not camp the night before some big sort of adventure sport because they know they're gonna have a crap night's sleep. That shouldn't be the case. You should be able to camp the night before that cycling thing or whatever, um, surf thing you're do, like, you should be able [01:12:00] to do your adventure sport that next morning and you should be able to sleep comfy and not with a rock in your butt from an air mattress.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And it is, it is a super comfortable mattress, but I think for me it's the utility of it because I'm constantly changing how I'm traveling. And so it's, it's totally self-supported in its own footprint. 

Tina Payne: Right. So there's a freedom to that, Scott, which I don't think.

Dave Payne: We sell, have we sell to a lot of people. They'll be like, I have a pickup and I have a defender and I just want one tent that I could move around. Oh yeah. And they might put our platform on one of the vehicles and then just use it in the bed of the other. Um, we have five vehicles and we camp, we actually camped out of all of 'em, including the Tesla, and we can bring the tent on any of them. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: As opposed to carrying five rooftop tents. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: This is sounding very privileged, but we Yeah. Because of work. We have different vehicles for different things. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. 

Dave Payne: But we use, in the pickup, we use it on the LR3, we use it on the scout. 

Tina Payne: And frankly, I don't mind sleeping on the ground as long as I have that four inch mattress.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And I think it's worth people looking at because I, I think that you [01:13:00] guys have taken a risk as a family to make a product that I think a lot of people in the industry can use. It comes from a place of a lot of years of travel as Overlanders. You guys have been a member of the community for a very long time. For those that are listening, this is a small business. Dave and Tina own it themselves. They've put all of themselves into this. So I just have a lot of respect for people taking that kind of risk. And it's a product that I use. So it, this ended up being a pitch and I didn't, I didn't.

Dave Payne: I didn't appreciate the kind word.

Scott Brady: I didn't use. I didn't, I didn't mean it to be that way, but it is a product that, that I appreciate myself. So I just want to congratulate you guys. 

Tina Payne: Oh, thank you. 

Dave Payne: Taking, we're Chuck away. 

Scott Brady: Took, you took the short line. You guys decided you, you aren't on the short bus. You took the short line.

Dave Payne: Right. Right. yeah. 

Tina Payne: We took the short line.

Dave Payne: Sometimes it feels like the short bus.

Scott Brady: But you guys, you guys, you guys took, you guys took the risk. And you, you put your heart and soul into creating something, and I just have a lot of respect for that. 

Dave Payne: We, thanks. We are always reinventing, keeping it interested. 

Tina Payne: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Scott Brady: Well, [01:14:00] and and we're so grateful that you guys were on the podcast today.

Tina Payne: Oh, thanks for having us. 

Dave Payne: I'm so, we're so glad to finally be here. I listened to every episode, . Yeah. It's nice to be in the chair for once. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. And we, we've had so many wonderful adventures together, including that first trip that we did together in Africa, which was just absolutely magical. 

Dave Payne: And we'll do it again.


Tina Payne: And the Grand Canyon one. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. That was another really wonderful, that was spectacular, wonderful adventure. So thank you both. Thank you. 

Dave Payne: Thank you, Scott. 

Scott Brady: On the podcast.

Tina Payne: Thank you Scott. 

Scott Brady: And we thank you all for listening and we'll talk to you next time.