Show Notes for Podcast #84
John Pangilinan Shares Insights on Content Creation and Sponsorships
Scott Brady interviews John Pangilinan about his work with content creators around the globe, and the challenges of being a good sponsored creative. John shares insights on his time with Formula Drift, Toyo Tires, and Pelican, along with his recent build of a 2022 Ford Bronco.
John Pangilinan has a diverse skill set and portfolio having worked for nearly two decades at the intersection of automotive, fashion, lifestyle, and art - bridging industries and interests in a way that few people can. As a PR & marketing specialist, John has worked throughout his career working with many of the top automotive brands in the industry. He spent his formative years at a boutique agency working with clients such as the Formula Drift series, where he served as the motorsports’ series PR manager for 11 seasons. In 2012, John left that agency to focus on his own business and since then has built an impressive roster of clients that include projects with Stance socks, Hyundai, eBay, Old Spice, KW Suspension, Gran Turismo, Grand Prix of Long Beach, and Reign Energy Drink. Today, his company JP+CO, is the PR agency of record for Toyo Tires and continues to work with brands including Pelican, Ford/Lincoln, and more. Photography has always been a passion for John and he has had the opportunity to capture amazing moments for marketing, advertising, and editorial campaigns. This includes photography and video work with automotive manufacturers, motorcycle brands, athletes that have included UFC, MLB, and NFL stars, along with fashion and lifestyle brands.
As an automotive enthusiast, John has been embedded in car culture and has brought his unique and distinct style to every custom vehicle he has had a chance to work on either for himself or clients. His personal car builds have received numerous awards – a Ford design award in 2021 and 2011, a President’s Choice Award by Hyundai Motor America in 2013, and Scion Tuner Challenge achievements in 2008 and 2010 – and in 2013, John made SEMA News’ “35 Under 35” list.
On the event side, John has produced multiple events from product launches to press reveals. This includes the Toyo Tires Trailpass, which is an annual event that is focused on education and relationships within the outdoors, off-road, and overlanding community. John is on the advisory board for the Pow! Wow! Long Beach, an art festival that brings both internationally renowned and local artists together to beautify the city of Long Beach. He also co-founded the OG Moto Show, an annual event in Los Angeles that gathers thousands of enthusiasts to celebrate craftsmanship and artistry within the moto community. His byline regularly graces AcquireMag.com, Carryology.com, and Tread Magazine he has also had the opportunity to work with outlets spanning multiple genres including Hypebeast magazine, The Hundreds, Fatlace.com, WIRED, EDC magazine, and more. The Southern California native balances time between work and quality time with his wife and two young kids.
Scott is the publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and includes three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady
Matthew is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world's most remote places by 4WD and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. He is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore
To follow John on all of his adventures check out the links below:
Scott Brady: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host, Scott Brady. And I am here with a special guest today, John Pangilinan and, and John is a creative specialist. This guy. Makes his living and has spent his life telling stories visually with photography and with video. And he's also built a very cool new Ford Bronco. So we're going to talk a little bit about his Bronco and then we're going to talk about the lessons that he's learned and the advice that he can give to those of you that are listening on how to best craft your stories for support in the industry. Uh, John is on the receiving end of all of those requests for sponsorship. So John can give some advice on ways to go about that ways to exceed expectations and ways to really do your part, to make sure that future support is possible not only for yourself, but for others that [00:01:00] come after you. So I think this'll be a really interesting conversation, John. Thanks so much for being on the podcast.
John Pangilinan: Thanks for having me.
Scott Brady: Yeah. Well, so you were actually born in the Philippines, is that right?
John Pangilinan: I was.
Scott Brady: What, what area of the Philippines were you born in?
John Pangilinan: Very close to Manila. If not in Manila. In veteran's hospital there.
Scott Brady: Oh, wow. Very cool. And, and how did you go from being born in the Philippines to then moving to the United States? What, how, what was that process?
John Pangilinan: Um, my dad was a doctor in the Philippines. My mom was studying to be a nurse. They met at the hospital. My mom was then, uh, you know, pregnant with me, had me. And then I had family members that were already in the states, but the easiest way for my parents at the time to get to the states was they moved to Nigeria in Africa. I actually turned one in Nigeria.
Scott Brady: Amazing.
John Pangilinan: Um, I think I was there for less than a year or so. Uh, then we moved to the east coast and bounced around. Uh, I have [00:02:00] three younger brothers. We were all born in different states. So one is ones in Connecticut, Tennessee, and New York.
Scott Brady: Wow. And then you ended up spending a chunk of time in New York, but then moving to Southern California. And that's where you've lived ever since.
John Pangilinan: That's correct. Yeah, I've been in, I lived in, uh, Southern California pretty much, you know, my whole life and, and move around in a couple of cities there. And, stayed there because that's where my family's at.
Scott Brady: Oh, for sure. Well, it's great to be around family and it's kind of an, an additional story to all of this.
John Pangilinan: So not only, I mean, I grew up in Southern California. We have, we have run in similar circles and in fact, I've shared a cocktail or a meal at many different events. In fact, I remember a great Snow Peak party. We were at one year for outdoor retailer, and that was a lot of fun and catching up. Uh, but then also our, our, uh, video director, Ryan Keegan, you guys actually grew up together kind of spend some time to get, [00:03:00] yeah, we grew up in the city called La Mirada in, in California, just grew up skateboarding and that's really how we got to know each other. And then the funny story was, you know, we, you know, we went our separate ways. Ryan did his thing. I did my. But then this world brought us together along with Instagram. Um, and then I placed an order to try to catch up on past issues. And he sent me like a little note with the, when the issues came to my house.
Scott Brady: Isn't that great. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, and Ryan is still skateboarding. In fact, the only thing that he tells me is he says he doesn't bounce as well as it used to. So, you know, it's, it's amazing that he's still keeping that up. What a dangerous activity.
John Pangilinan: I wish I could still skate my best too, I'm messed up now.
Scott Brady: I think a lot of skateboarders say that, you know, when they hit their forties, they're like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have bounced so many times. Well, what a, what a great area to grow up creatively. And that has no [00:04:00] doubt led to some of your story. You talked about being involved with the drifting scene. How did that begin to shape some of your insights around good storytelling because you guys were literally creating an industry? So talk a little bit about what you learned in that process.
John Pangilinan: Absolutely. So when drifting was first coming to the United States, um, and the group of guys that brought the sport to the states, um, they, uh, they, they definitely, um, helped create this new culture, right? It's an extension of the import car scene. And, but it was exciting because it was actually on the track. It was like a lot of people called it stunt driving, uh, with control and with, and in competition. And so that was, you know, that also had similar, um, feelings of action sports. And so that really intrigued me, um, you know, fast forward a couple of years as the scene group got bigger, um, the [00:05:00] agency I was with, we became the agency of record for them and we did creative um, and PR. Part of the PR gig was really, um, approving media members. So, and back then we had so many guys that were just hungry and very talented, and it was a. Uh, figuring out who made the most sense who was with real legitimate media outlets and just giving these guys a shot and a lot of these names and a lot of the guys that started in the drifting world are now, you know, well-established photographers guys like Larry Chen, who's a Canon Brand ambassador. Um, and there's just so many other guys that just, but they started from the world of formula drift and in the drifting scene.
Scott Brady: So, uh, and this leads me to a question. If someone was to come to you saying, I would like to start to tell these stories of this segment. So let's, let's do it in the context of overlanding that someone is looking to get involved with media. Now I have some insights that I'll share as well, but [00:06:00] from your perspective, what were you looking for? What were the key attributes that you were looking for in those individuals that allowed you to give them that chance?
John Pangilinan: I think number one was, you know, we, we looked for, uh, the outlets that they were associated with or the brands, whether it was a tire company or a, a suspension company that was vouching for these guys or the drivers teams themselves. But often we would have a pool of 200 to 400 media members and, you know, trying to cut it down from, you know, 500 media requests, that's kind of, you know, it was a little bit of a challenge. So going, so what we would do is firstly, verify that they are with an outlet to check them out creatively because some guys, you just want to give a chance because they, you could see from a lot of talent and content that they were creating the images, the visuals that they, these guys really had talent and, and, and could create and tell a story. And so a lot of. A lot of times we would just give them [00:07:00] a pass or at least I would give them a pass to let's see what they could do. Let's see what type of story they could create at this event and round. So I think for overlanders, it'd be the same thing. It's first go out and do it. Your shoot. Don't just expect that you just came out of school, you have a camera and you're going to be able to hang with these guys and, you know. Second would be stay professional, you know, don't cause any danger, don't do things you're not supposed to get a lay of the land. Learn first. What is accepted and what's, um, and just, what is the proper way to do things? You know, you, you kind of have to, at least in my eyes, you need to kind of earn your keep, you know, before you're just thrown in, in the fire, you know, and especially with overlanding, you know, you have so many places you can go. A lot of people just are a little disrespectful I feel like, um..
Scott Brady: No that's such a valid, a valid thing. We're seeing that more and more with overlanding as more folks are getting involved, they just haven't gone through that process of, of recognizing how much public land we've lost [00:08:00] access to because of. Poor treatment of the land. So making sure that the media that they're producing always reflects tread lightly, and it is always respectful of the land because once that image goes out into the world, you can't get it back. Like you think you can, but no, it's, uh, it's out there forever. And then people say, oh, that was the guy who tore up the side of this mountain or whatever.
John Pangilinan: Yeah. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's not worth it for a photo for Instagram, you know, or a video, it's just, it's just not. And I think, you know, the educational process and, and people just being respectful and, and humble enough to understand that, you know, regardless of the amount of followers, you know, even more so if you have a lot of followers, you should be setting the example. And so, you know, just knowing those things, I think that's, those are the types of things that we look at. And, you know, when, when you're creating content out in the outdoors, you don't want to be just. Just like this quote unquote influencer that..
Scott Brady: Sure.
John Pangilinan: Doesn't really give back. They just try to take. [00:09:00]
Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. And there's a lot of that because individuals will associate, uh, the number of followers with that that has value. And oftentimes it does. There's a lot of other things that we look at, like we look at, um, what is their reputation in the industry? We'll talk to some individuals that they've worked with, uh, just to get a gauge. Would you work with this person again? And we'll ask that. And it's, it's interesting. The number of times that someone will say, yeah, I wouldn't work with that person again. Because oftentimes what happens is, let's say someone has given a set of wheels or they're given, um, Pelican cases. I know you work with Pelican and then they don't do the work. They don't actually deliver on what they said they were going to do. And then that starts to, despite the number of followers you have in the industry, folks talk professionals talk, and it's going to, it's pretty interesting. We've seen some, some folks that with large followings that they're kind of now in the, in the shadows because they didn't follow through on what they said they [00:10:00] were going to do.
John Pangilinan: Absolutely. And it's a small industry. Right? So, you know, I, you know, I, you mentioned Pelican, you know, I also work with Toyo and I do receive a lot of proposals, a lot of requests, um, even DMs, you know, requesting product.
Scott Brady: Yeah.
John Pangilinan: And most of the people are very respectful or ask how, or, or if they can just get a discount, some people expect something and that's where it kind of it's, it's a turnoff. No, I don't care if you have a million followers. And then I have been burned, you know, we have sent product out and we get nothing back and, you know, that's just, I guess, the nature of the game, but..
Scott Brady: Sure.
John Pangilinan: You know, um, I'm getting really good at knowing who to get product to and not trying to keep also create at least for the two brands that I represent, um, create kind of a family team atmosphere. So everyone gets along, everyone can do stuff and everyone wants to participate and, um, be part of the program, you know, Uh, receive product and then do one post and call it a day. You know, it's really like, Hey, what else [00:11:00] can we do together? It's a collaborative effort.
Scott Brady: Yes, it absolutely is. And when we get inquiries from media, either professionals or aspiring media professionals, so we'll do that, we'll check their references. Uh, we are very interested in their first packages and their first communications. It's interesting. Someone will reach out to Overland Journal to write an article, and they are struggling to construct a sentence in an email. What that tells us is that it doesn't mean that they're not a great traveler or that they're not going to even be a potentially be a great contributor. It just means that it's going to be a lot more work for us because they may just not have that experience around grammar, spelling, all these other things that are really important and take a lot of time for our team. So that first impression is so critical when that email comes in, that it is, you should at least have it edited, have someone else take a look at it. Cause it's funny how much we miss, even if we're, [00:12:00] we're pretty experienced ourselves. I miss stuff all the time. And that's why we have amazing editors is because. I miss things too, but making sure that that first correspondence is really professional gets to the point, talks about what you want to deliver when you can deliver it by, um, give some examples of what the outcome might look like. The one thing that we love, this is an example that can really help the listeners here is we love it when someone sends a complete package and I bet you that's the same for you. Somebody who maybe even bought Toyo tires themselves. And they've got, they've pulled together, all these photos, they've got a little testimony and they send you like a thank you. Hey, I love your tires. I just want you to know how I've been using them. Here's my Instagram account. This is a bunch of photos. You guys are welcome to use them that probably endears you to them immediately.
John Pangilinan: It definitely does. You know, I think loyalty is very important, you know, unfortunately there's a lot of people that have, they want the bigger, better deal. So if someone's offering them something shiny [00:13:00] on, on one end, they, even though they were with one brand for quite a few years, they might jump ship. It's always hard to come back.
Scott Brady: That's true.
John Pangilinan: You don't want to burn those bridges. And again, it's a small industry, so we're, it gets around and it can, it can definitely hurt. Um, but I think for those that are loyal and, you know, and there, there other instances, like maybe. You prefer a different tire for a different type of vehicle.
Scott Brady: Sure.
John Pangilinan: That's fine too. You know?
Scott Brady: Of course, but just being upfront about that.
John Pangilinan: Absolutely. That's what it is. It's communication. Just. No surprises.
Scott Brady: Yeah. And if it's being used in the context of editorial, like for us, uh, we don't do sponsorships. We get product to evaluate for editorial. Oftentimes we pay for it ourselves, but our goal is to really evaluate the product and then get that information out. Um, so that's an advantage to the manufacturer who's provided it is that then it comes with this expert opinion around how the product performed. So I think. If someone is an influencer, it's really important for them to [00:14:00] determine what it is that they want to do. If they want to evaluate equipment, if they want to have a journalistic approach, they need to be very clear about the fact that that's what they're doing and then not get you can't be compensated for that. If you're being compensated for your opinion, then I believe that that's a conflict of interest. Now that doesn't mean that someone can't show beautiful pictures and like, hey thanks Toyos for getting me through the day kind of a thing. But if you're saying, oh, these Toyos are better than the BF Goodrich that I took off, and you just got paid to do that, then that's of course a conflict of interest and people find that out really quick.
John Pangilinan: Oh yeah, definitely. I think with, with, um, in regards to, you know, th the editorial and versus the sponsorship on the editorial side, you definitely cannot take any, any sort of payment, you know, that, I think that's why, you know, just having that journalistic integrity is very important and keeping it church and state separate. Um, and then from the influencer side, it's, you know, just being upfront, you know, when [00:15:00] not expecting, you know, we, we, uh, from, uh, from most of the brands I work with or have worked with, we typically don't pay influencers. Um, you know, the product usually speaks for itself. You know, it's something that they want to use. Th they shouldn't be paid to use it. Now it'd be different if they, if we use an image for an ad or some marketing campaign, then they should be compensated.
Scott Brady: For their time and their knowledge, sure.
John Pangilinan: As a photographer and a video producer I, I, I understand that side too. So it's, uh, it, it can get complicated and tricky. So it's really, how do you navigate this and make it work?
Scott Brady: Yeah, I think just the more upfront people are, the more transparent they are. Like if you get a free set of tires and you're an influencer. Like just, just say like, thanks Toyo for providing these tires for me. Like, it allows me to have my adventure and, but then you've disclosed that to your audience. That, that it's, it was, it was a sponsorship. I think that that's really important. So..
John Pangilinan: You know, sponsorship should still [00:16:00] be like anyone else, like you should be proud to be sponsored, you know, just like LeBron's sponsored by Nike.
Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. No question.
John Pangilinan: He's a Nike athlete.
Scott Brady: Yeah, no question. Yeah. I mean, imagine that day when he gets signed by Nike, that would have been an incredible experience for him. So on, on the sponsorship side, you get fielded hundreds of requests, I suspect a month or close to it. Um, so what, what do you look for? Like, if someone was to give you the ultimate pitch, like something that you would have found that really works in the past, what does that normally look like?
John Pangilinan: I, I, it really depends on what if it's some aligning with the goals that we currently have. So for example, for Toyo right now, the Open Country line of tires is very popular. The AT3 launched more recently. And so we're looking to be able to see um, tires that go on those on those vehicles. Right. And we [00:17:00] want to make sure that we're going to the right storytellers. Um, the guys that have a decent amount of followers, because obviously you don't want to give 'em tires to someone that maybe only has a couple hundred people that are seeing it cause it's, you're not going to get the most bang for your buck quality of content. Um, and then it also depends on, you know, are they going to provide us with content? Are they going to run a decal? Are they attending events? Do they have media coverage planned out? Um, you know, all of those things we take into consideration. And then from there, we're able to determine if we have the budget to support that. And, you know, as, you know, truck tires, aren't cheap. So..
Scott Brady: Yeah, they're very expensive and there's not a lot of margin in them either because there's so much competition for tires. So now that's interesting. And, and for those that are listening, just recognizing that all of these companies, they do have a marketing budget that they're working against. So if someone says, I'm sorry, I can't support you right now. It doesn't even necessarily mean that they don't like what you pitched. It may just [00:18:00] mean that they don't have the budget anymore. That they've, they've sent out all the tires that they can send out. And we've also seen, for example, Like currently there's a shortage of a lot of equipment. So there are some things that are just simply not available. We were doing a winch test recently and we couldn't normally Warn would be very supportive of editorial and they would send a product to test. Um, it was just not available from Warn so we had to find it in the ways that we could and buy it ourselves because it was really important for us to demonstrate the success of that product in the test, because it was being tested against six other products. So there was a lot of times that it's not that they don't want to help or that you don't have a great story to tell. They just may not have either the budget or the inventory.
John Pangilinan: Yeah. Inventory issues, especially in the last couple of years have been plaguing everyone. You know, there's a lot of shortage of supplies, workers at the factory. So everything is a little bit, you know, on the manufacturing side is, [00:19:00] has slowed down. Um, so, you know, Thankfully, you know, we've been able, we, the people that we work with are very understanding as well as we're also able to, um, work our magic and sure. Try to get tires to the people that need to get that.
Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. Now that makes a lot of sense. Well, so the next question for me then is now that someone wants to start to tell a story, uh, to their audience, whatever size that may be, or maybe they really want to build an audience. What are some, what's some advice that you would give someone that wants to build up their audience on Instagram or on Facebook or on TikTok or whatever platform that they're choosing to focus on? What are some pieces of advice you'd give to them?
John Pangilinan: I think number one is just consistency, you know, from the people that we work with that have a large followings, they didn't give up. They, they stayed true to their voice. They told their story. And even if there was only a few people viewing their image or liking their image, they kept at it. And [00:20:00] you know, it takes time to build an audience. It really does. And you know, you can't expect to, uh, you know, to do a couple of posts and all of a sudden you're this famous celebrity. Consistency is definitely key. I think quality content, making sure you're using the best technology you can afford. Um, although you don't really need to have like the best camera and you might have just a good iPhone, but also having just that creative eye helps a lot. And, um, and staying with the trends, you know, obviously the algorithms that are, uh, are tricky these days, um, to grow that audience. Um, and I think. If you can find your own natural voice, that's important too. And I, you know, that's really, it, it's just sticking with it. You know, I see a lot of people that they give a shot, they give it a shot for a few months. Um, and then they, they give up, you know, um, I mean, it's hard. It's like, it's probably like this podcast, you know, you have to start, [00:21:00] you know, although you had an audience already.
Scott Brady: It took time.
John Pangilinan: It takes a lot of time and dedication out of your day. You know, that's another thing is like, do you have the time to do it? Can you support this? Is it worth it to you to give up whatever else you're doing and to really go after it, it's like anything else, if you are passionate about it, you're going to do well. And it'll show. I think that's a, you know, that's really all I have. I mean, I don't have a large following myself.
Scott Brady: But you work with brands that do. Well, so you certainly have learned what works and for us, it's the same way we choose when we choose to do something new as an organization, we think about it for a long time and we make sure that we understand it and that we can serve. The audience properly with the content. So it'll be years between us doing something new, um, cause we really want to continue to be great at the things that we're already doing. Um, and we try really hard to continue to be great at those [00:22:00] things. And that takes a lot of energy. So when we bring up something like a podcast, it's so important to have all of the right pieces. And then to your point, being able to do it week in and week out and stick with.
John Pangilinan: Yeah, yeah. Too often people, you know, give up on themselves. You know, I think that's the, one of the problems of social media is that if you, you're not getting the likes to clicks you, um, you know, it, it can affect your mental health a little bit. And I think that's going to be a problem more so, especially when you see other people, you know, you get a little bit of a FOMO, so it really, you, you have to be tough. You have to be able to continue doing what you're doing. And just have a little bit of, uh, of a drive and a little bit of a thick skin as well in order to succeed at this.
Scott Brady: Well, and you mentioned that your, your degree is actually in psychology and social behavior. So that's an interesting question. When it comes to [00:23:00] platforms like Instagram, have you found either advice or things that work to help people maintain that healthy perspective or to be as healthy as possible around social media. And what would you suggest that people consider?
John Pangilinan: I think the, that the people that are very successful are honest and honest with their audience and also open, right? There's a lot of people that curate their stories. They don't show the downsides of things. And there are a lot of people that show share everything, the downs, the ups, the downs, and, and everything around it. And, um, I think the ones that are open probably have the best engagement, have the, have a more authentic and genuine following. Um, I don't know if. If you're getting a lot of likes and clicks translates for some of the brands into sales necessarily, you know, for, uh, for us, we look at what will, uh, what will, what will eventually, you know, create a [00:24:00] customer or, or someone loyal to the brand. And, you know, I think.
Scott Brady: I see what you're saying.
John Pangilinan: Are now pushing what they think their audience wants to see and compromise. You know what they're doing and, you know, I think it's also healthy to take a break every now and then, you know, and just, you know, you have to do what you have to do that, you know, your health comes. Number one.
Scott Brady: Yeah. I had, um, I had a, a pretty serious family loss recently and I just completely stopped for, I needed to, I mean, it was really a significant loss for my family, so I just didn't even open up Instagram and I got back on probably four weeks later and just the number of messages and everything, but I realized that that it was okay. Like it's all right to do that. And maybe it's really a good idea to do that. And I think to your point also is like, let's say you take a, a musician or a celebrity that has a massive following because of their talent as a creative, [00:25:00] that would not necessarily translate to selling tires. That's true. And that, and I think that we're seeing that more and more is brands being discerning around conversions. So audience size does not relate to conversion. So like another good example of that in the automotive industry is maybe someone who has a very inexpensive car. Like they've got like a 30 year old, um, Porsche unmodified, and they have this huge following because the person's really funny and their photos are great and everything, but him putting new tires on that Porsche probably does not translate into a lot of sales, uh, where it's, if it's someone with a newer car that is more interested in the aftermarket and the aftermarket is being supported on that channel, then you probably see a higher conversion.
John Pangilinan: Exactly. So, you know, there's a lot of factors. Yeah. Um, in, in someone's feed that we definitely look at and that's one, does it make sense? Is their audience the type of audience that will purchase tires or any other parts [00:26:00] for that matter? Or are they simply looking at it? Because it's a pretty car that they like in these, uh, beautiful landscapes.
Scott Brady: Pretty car, pretty person, something that is visually interesting in and of itself, but doesn't necessarily translate to an enthusiast for sure. Well, let's pivot a little bit towards production and photography. So talk a little bit about what is your kit? What do you use when you want to go out and shoot a shoot a car?
John Pangilinan: So when we do some, it depends on the shoot, right? Obviously if we're doing something just quick and easy, you know, I'm shooting my personal car for something. Um, it's a small kit. I use, I have a Pelican Air, um, case that the travels with me almost everywhere. Uh, and I use a Sony. I have a Sony, a 7R II camera, which is like my backup event cameras. So you'll see me at trade shows with that. Cause it's light and nimble, easy to use super easy. But my, my work horse now is, uh, is a Canon R5. And then [00:27:00] I've hosted lenses, um, always in the kit, uh, you know, every memory cards, filters, all of that fun stuff. Um, I use, I do use a lot of strobe lighting. I use Pro Photo, um, and it, it just depends on the shoot. If it's a commercial shoot, we just wrapped up a couple of projects last year with Lincoln. And, um, yeah, it was a lot of lighting. A lot of production goes into that. It's more or less a full-day shoot for something like that. But if it's something in the outdoors you just use natural light. You use what you have sometimes you'll strobe something or, or, or have a light bar or something like that. It's really depends.
Scott Brady: Or a nice reflector or just waiting for the light to get right. It's it's interesting. Uh, when, when we do shoots, if we take the time to make sure we're in the right location with the right light, it just, it, the photographer hasn't changed still the same person, but the outcome is an order of magnitude more beautiful because all of that energy was spent on finding the right scene, and the right light, and the right [00:28:00] color of vehicle, and then it completely changes it.
John Pangilinan: Yeah. Planning is everything, you know, it can save you hours and, and a lot of post-processing time as well. Um, I just finished, uh, I went on this event called the Overland Express Rally through death valley recently, and I was hired to shoot it event. You know, that's more running gun, your sh I'm shooting out the window. I'm jumping out of the car. I'm getting muddy, dirty shooting, whatever I can. But at the same time, I can't hold the group back because one, I don't know where the next end point is that we're going to stop, um, to, uh, you know, it's just, you just gotta capture what you can, where you are. And, you know, I think that's, you know, a little bit of advice. It's just, you just have to be ready, you know, and just get what you can. Sometimes. It's not going to be the perfect moment or the perfect settings, or you just have to do what you can in that moment.
Scott Brady: Some of the advice that we will give folks in that scenario, You want to try to capture three different perspectives. You want to capture the landscape, the [00:29:00] environment that you're in. You want to capture the subject, which may be a person cooking dinner or, or deflating a tire. So you've got this portrait and then you want to capture the details. And a lot of times I'll see people out shooting the shooting, everything at 6"' 1', 6 foot. So they're all standing up with there and it's all the same perspective or their phone is. In front of their face instead of getting down low or getting up high or changing the focal length. So that way it starts to look different. And if when people shoot every time you get out to take a photograph, it's probably worth taking the time to get a landscape shot or get the vehicle or the person in the context of their space, getting that beautiful portrait and then getting the detail of something. Maybe that's the tire print on the ground. Or maybe that's the cholla cactus that's stuck into the tread or, or maybe it's the splatter of mud up the side of the vehicle, or, or maybe it's just like the [00:30:00] eye and the curl of a smile of the person driving the vehicle. And if we can capture those three perspectives, as much as we can, then we end up with a really nice visual story. That's one of our biggest challenges with Overland Journal is we get a lot of front three-quarter, center punched vehicle in, in midday light. And it's just not usable. Like we have to, we can't use the content. Whereas if people take the time, like we said, to get the right light, get those multiple perspectives, use rule of thirds, things that start to tell a more beautiful story visually, then that's content that we can use.
John Pangilinan: Definitely. You know, you hit it right on the head. It's really being prepared and telling that visual story, you know, you can't just get one, especially for editorial. Right? You have to tell a story, you have to tell war, who's the person what's, what are the details of the vehicle? Where did they go? What about the landscapes? Where, where did they [00:31:00] travel to? What are the conditions to terrain all of it, you know, and it's digital. So it's essentially free, right?
Scott Brady: Burn megapixels.
This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in 2006 with the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews. Along with the most stunning adventures and photography, we cared deeply about the countries and cultures we visit and share our experiences freely with our readers. We also have zero advertorial policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews. By subscribing to Overland Journal, you're helping to support our employee owned and veteran owned publication. Your support also provides resources and funding for content like you are watching or listening to. [00:32:00] Right now, you can subscribe directly on our website at overlandjournal.com.
What are you seeing as, as trends or piece of advice around video production now, are you seeing things that are really working? I mean, is it true that we need to be focusing a lot of energy now on these very snackable, um, you know, call it a TikTok or a reels format? Do people really need to be paying attention to that right now? Or you think there's still room for mid and long length video?
John Pangilinan: I think it's both, right? It also depends on your audience. If you want to reach the younger consumer and audience, then you definitely have to do the snackable, um, little stories, little tidbits. And because that's where the audience says, they're on TikTok, they're watching the reels, Instagram's pushing the reels more and more. So you definitely should be creating that type of content. But you know, I'm, I'm a little bit older as well, and I appreciate the long form content as well. And I think there's [00:33:00] definitely, um, people that will, will watch everything and then you'll have the, some guys that'll watch some of it and, and some that will watch, you know, the rest. But, um, you know, you ha you also have to think about the attention spans of people.
Scott Brady: It's getting shorter and shorter.
John Pangilinan: It's not what it once was.
Scott Brady: For sure, for sure. Well, and that's just, I guess, just being, recognizing that that's where the audience is going and that's just, okay. It doesn't, it's not that I, it's not my place to change. My, my job is to tell a story and my job is to test equipment. And if people are consuming that content in a different way, that's okay. We just need to adjust and, and not be upset that the cheese has moved.
John Pangilinan: Yeah. Or use one to promote the other, or you do a 15 second teaser, um, of, you know, changing tires and, and then go into the deeper dive of why you change the tires on the long format, right?
Scott Brady: Yeah. For sure.
John Pangilinan: You just have to use all the platforms. You know, social media and, uh, and the [00:34:00] roles that, that they're creating. Um, you know, there's definitely a career that, uh, that you can have.
Scott Brady: Yeah, no question. It's amazing. The amount of energy that it takes to do that properly.
John Pangilinan: Yeah, definitely.
Scott Brady: All right, so that leads me then to shifting gears a little bit and let's talk about your Bronco. So I had the chance to test a, um, a wild, Wildtrack Bronco a couple months ago. Lockers front and rear, sway bar disconnects, all the goodies. You had to have gotten one of the first bra Broncos off the line. I mean, yours has got to be an early car.
John Pangilinan: I think mine's pretty early. I got it. Um, October 4th, so, right, right towards the beginning. Um, I also placed my order, uh, on day two. Uh, and I made, um, I made a few changes to try to get it ahead of time. I played that game. There was. A lot of things going around on, on online and on the forums that were like, okay, if you did this, you can get it this, this much earlier because there's delays with the hard tops or whatever. So got [00:35:00] it pretty early. I also built it, um, to the specs of. That I think that I would use, you know, cause I don't do much rock crawling.
Scott Brady: Sure.
John Pangilinan: You know, it's more of a daily driver for me and family vehicle for the weekends. And so I wanted, that's why I chose a four door. I also wanted to be comfortable. So I went with the, and I also just liked the look of the outer banks with the painted fenders. And so went with that and I also knew I was going to modify it. So, you know, I, I definitely chose the, the vehicle that, that I want, that I would use for myself. That that would be the most. That that would make the most sense without going overboard. I think the Wildtrack is a little rare right now to play as well as super hard, but probably super fun.
Scott Brady: Oh, it's amazing. But your Bronco is amazing. I mean, that color that you picked. So we're going to include photographs in the YouTube version of this so that people can see it we'll even have some video of it as well. Uh, Ryan and John are going to go out [00:36:00] and shoot a full feature on the truck as well. So that'll be available on the YouTube channel for those who want to see this car, but this, this color, it's probably one of the coolest colors I've ever seen on a Bronco. Now, what inspired you to use that color? It's, it's kind of, um, for those that are just listening, like, how would you describe the color.
John Pangilinan: I would say it's in between like an, olive green and a mint green, those two colors had a baby it'd become, it would be boxwood green.
Scott Brady: Okay. So it's called boxwood green?
John Pangilinan: Yeah, and it's, uh, it's actually, uh, uh, older, uh, Ford Bronco color. So I wanted to..
Scott Brady: Original Bronco or Bronco..
John Pangilinan: I believe it's one of the originals or an early Bronco color. And it's, um, I've seen it in person and I took a mental note of it and. It was something that, you know, I, when I saw the Bronco first, I'm like, wow, they really kept to the old body style. They really kept, they, you know, so I, so in my build, I wanted to do something different. I knew that people were going to go [00:37:00] crazy with the modifications. The accessories are going to go full off road. Well, that's not really me, you know? Um, I always like to have a little bit of style and, and I'm known a little bit for the color choices that I've done with the V the project vehicles that I've done. And so. That green was really stood out and it pays homage to the tonight iconic Broncos.
Scott Brady: And it's also understated. It's not a, it's not a very flashy color. It's just extremely handsome on the truck. And then the second thing that you notice is the white grill. Did you, is there anything different about that grill or just because it's white like that against that green? That it looks so different?
John Pangilinan: Well, it's different grill. I, the outer banks has a slightly different, uh, well it's same shape and size, but has different as for some reason for changed every grill on every model of Bronco. So I got the Badlands grill. Cause I thought it looked the best. And then I also have the kid tracks, which is kind of like a power wheels Bronco for my kids. And I had it [00:38:00] painted to match and it had the Badlands grill too. So to match them better, I changed my grill to and painted it and had it painted white.
Scott Brady: You wanted to match your kids grill?
John Pangilinan: Yeah.
Scott Brady: That's good. I like that.
John Pangilinan: Vehicles. And I'll, I'll give you a photo of that.
Scott Brady: Yeah, we got to get, we totally got to get your kids truck. That's awesome. And then, the other thing that really stands out is the white wheels. So talk about the wheels that are on there and why did you choose those?
John Pangilinan: So I have a set of the 1552 analog wheels. Um, I believe the first set of white analog wheels for the Bronco that came into the states. Uh, thankfully I know those guys over there, and they were kind enough to hold them for me for the vehicle until my, my truck came. Um, but that ultimately gave me the decision to then paint the car. Um, you know, it was a brand new vehicle. Like why, why do you paint it? But..
Scott Brady: That's crazy.
John Pangilinan: I want it to stand out again. And, and also I knew it was going to be displayed with Toyo at, um, at SEMA. So to stand out at SEMA, you have to do [00:39:00] some crazy things sometimes.
Scott Brady: Well, the, those white wheels, they look like an old school steel wheel, but they're not, but they're aluminum. And I think they look great. In fact, I think Matt Scott, the co-host of the, of the show has those same wheels on his LJ Jeep and they, and they're, they're in black on his, his Jeep and they look, they look so good. Now, the other thing that I noticed in the back is because you're a photographer and you do go camping with your family and everything, you've got, you've paid attention to some organization in the back of that, the Bronco. What did you install back there that kind of helps you make the best use of that small space?
John Pangilinan: So in the back first, the Bronco has no cargo space.
Scott Brady: Yeah, very little.
John Pangilinan: Coming from a SUV into the Bronco, there's not much. And I can't really put my seats down when I have my kids in the back because they're in the back. So I have, um, the Goose Gear plate in the back, which, you know, adds a little bit of, uh, some protection and, uh, makes it really easy to just throw things in and out. I have their, their, um, [00:40:00] tailgate table, which folds down nicely.
Scott Brady: It looks great.
John Pangilinan: And, uh, yeah, I can put my grill on there, do my coffee set up my cameras, whatever that, that comes in really handy.
Scott Brady: Having a worktable. Since it doesn't since, the truck doesn't have a tailgate. It becomes your tailgate. Yeah. Which is perfect.
John Pangilinan: Exactly. And then I have a Dometic CFX, a fridge in there and with the, with the Goose Gear uh, camp, kitchen.
Scott Brady: Yeah, sure.
John Pangilinan: Yeah. And then it slides out really nice and easy and yeah, so everything is in the back organized. I typically have my Pelican camera case with me. I have a Pelican Cargo BX50, which just as dry storage. But inside there right now is like, I think I have, I have a couple, uh, I have all of my coffee making kit.
Scott Brady: It's important, man. It's important.
John Pangilinan: You know, I don't know how long Ryan's going to have me out on the trails tomorrow. And it's cold out here.
Scott Brady: Yeah, it is. It's right. You're from Southern California. This is cold. There's actually snow on the ground and Prescott right [00:41:00] now.
John Pangilinan: Yeah. So I brought the coffee kit along. My goal is zero and then I just, you know, just to make it easy and I didn't want to bring propane. I just brought my, uh, Uh, water kettle thing.
Scott Brady: Oh, that's great. So you've had the Bronco now then for, you know, five, six months. How, how has it held up? I've you enjoyed the truck? What are the things that you've learned? The pros and cons like to give the listener? Like what's the low down on the, on the Ford Bronco now that you've owned it for as long as you have?
John Pangilinan: Uh, first off I love Ford. Um, but, uh, they've um, they've been a great client, but the Bronco itself, one, it looks awesome. And I get the most compliments I've ever gotten both male, female, thumbs out the window, people stopping me at Target, you know, to talk about it. So it's an exciting truck. Um, but there, there are a couple of downsides. One I think is with the soft top. It is loud inside, especially on the freeway. But with the BNO sound system.
Scott Brady: The hard top is loud too. [00:42:00] So I think that soft top was a good choice.
John Pangilinan: And it looks great.
Scott Brady: It looks great.
John Pangilinan: And it's fun to take the top down.
Scott Brady: Yeah, for sure.
John Pangilinan: But then I lose the ability to have a rack on top. So I lose more storage space for a tent or whatever else on, you know, um, but with the top down, I could also fit a surf board, you know, so there, there are definitely pros and cons and I'm looking forward to the summer and cause I, I, I'm not much of a cold weather surfer. Uh, the other thing that I came across was the back seats with my two kids. And they're not, they're not big. There's three and four or three and five, sorry, Cruise, um, so my original car seats have a higher bolster, so there was only this little window where they could fit in. I'd have to put it in, carry them up and the trucks lifted and I'm not the tallest guy, put him sideways and then put him in.
Scott Brady: You're talking about your kid, you got to put your kids sideways?
John Pangilinan: So he didn't slam his head on the top, which I've done a couple of [00:43:00] times. So thankfully I got new car seats from this brand called Diono, and they have the lowest bolster and they're the brand that's known for doing three across in the back. I only have two kids, but every bit of space helps. And so that helped a lot in terms of having them fit, but also. You know, uh, my wife and I are both not the biggest of people and their feet and legs still touch the back where you can. So that's, you know, it's not the biggest of space and it, and I get it cause they have stadium seating in the back.
Scott Brady: Sure.
John Pangilinan: It's raised up higher, so you don't get car sick on the trails and..
Scott Brady: Sure.
John Pangilinan: Although my daughter did get car sick on her last Joshua Tree trip.
Scott Brady: Oh no, that was probably exciting.
John Pangilinan: Yeah.
Scott Brady: That's when you glad the interior can hose out.
John Pangilinan: I don't have the hose out interior, but she kept it on herself.
Scott Brady: Oh no..
John Pangilinan: We just have to change her.
Scott Brady: Gotcha. Adventures, adventures and family travel.
John Pangilinan: Dad life.
Scott Brady: Yeah. That's great, man. That's awesome.
John Pangilinan: Yeah, that's what, that's what it's for. And you know, outside of that, the kids love it. I mean, I pick them up from school. They [00:44:00] can point it out. They they're like they, they called the Bronco, the Bronco, you know, I'm not one of those guys that names, the, my cars. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's definitely, uh, a vehicle. Fun. I mean, it checked all the boxes for a vehicle that I wanted. Right. I wanted something capable for when we do go on trips and things. And do you go camping and on trails and we're just going to have a blast this spring and summer, I think. And, um, it also just, uh, it's just an iconic vehicle and just to have it, it's really fun, you know?
Scott Brady: It's special.
John Pangilinan: If I had, say the garage space. Um, it would be more of a weekend vehicle than, than my daily driver, which it is right now, but it's, uh, you know, outside of that, it's, uh, it's been fun. I mean, I haven't knock on wood broken anything yet. You know what I've done a couple trails. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's just, uh, it's just one of those, one of those vehicles that you, you, it feels special driving [00:45:00] and, um, you look forward to getting into yeah.
Scott Brady: It's fun. Yeah. The one that we had was so fun. So, um, another question when we had the test vehicle that we had, we noticed that some of the interior materials were maybe not super durable have you, but we didn't know how that was going to go long-term. Our very short-term experience led us to believe that those interior materials may not hold up very well. How have you had your, like, how has your dash held up the plastic? Is that holding up okay?
John Pangilinan: So far so good. And you know, no issues with the dash, although I do want to wrap it to match because I had the navy pier interior, and I just don't think that it matches right with the green color scheme. So I found one upholstery shop that said they can do it. The first shop wasn't very confident. Um, and I did have it, all my seats were wrapped with katzkin, uh, the leather. So that's held up pretty well. I, I do notice that the back cargo area does scratch a [00:46:00] little bit.
Scott Brady: That's what we experienced was, uh, like the dash itself, and then some of the, like the, the facias on the doors, just a lot of small scratches came up pretty quickly. Is that what you've experienced or not so bad?
John Pangilinan: Not really, I'm pretty careful too. And I haven't had, even with the kids like that, no major issues there or that I notice I also have a really good detail guy.
Scott Brady: Oh, that's good. Good guy to have. Now, do you have the 2.3 liter or the 2.7?
John Pangilinan: I have the 2.7.
Scott Brady: Yeah, that's a nice motor. Jeez, it rips. Is yours the automatic or the manual?
John Pangilinan: Automatic.
Scott Brady: Nice. Well, it is a great looking truck and it'll be fun to have it here to support the YouTube side of it. And then people will be able to check it out a full video of it as well. So that, that is a really handsome vehicle. And when it comes to building vehicles, one of the things that I noticed about yours, and it it's consistent with the way that I like to build vehicles as well, is just to be a little more elegant [00:47:00] and understated. I think that people make the mistake of putting so much stuff on their vehicles that they, that it kind of, it doesn't end up looking very clean or very even elegant at the end of the day. So have you found that to be the case? Are people better off under doing the vehicle and then focusing on something special, like the paint color, or do you find that it actually does work just as well to bolt on a bunch of accessories?
John Pangilinan: I guess that comes down to personal preference and style, right? And also what what's the utility of the vehicle? Right? I, I wasn't, I know who I am and I know, you know, I'm competent enough to say I don't need to do that much to, for two vehicle, to make it look good and perform well. Um, I think, you know, as I've gotten older, I think simple is, um, is more my style now and been doing a couple pop elements, you know, the wheels, the paint now, and then also choosing how do colors work well together? Uh, you know, I painted [00:48:00] originally that even the side mirrors were, um, body match. So instead of going to the green, I kept it, I painted it black, actually, just so that, that line flowed well.
Scott Brady: The BeltLine was uninterrupted.
John Pangilinan: I try to look at those little design touches, you know, am I going to paint the door, handles white and the fenders white and you know, no, not really, cause I think that's a little bit too much and playing off of that, uh, too, too much, at least for my style. Right? And I know, again, everyone has their own style. I, you know, I could have added a million lights to it, but I think that distracts from the vehicle. And how often am I really going to drive at night? You know, I try to get to the campsite before it gets cold. You know, I don't like setting up a dark. So that's, you know, I, I think you have to know your personal style, um, also what you plan to achieve and do you want your vehicle to stand out that much and with all these accessories attached to it, because now you're going anywhere you can have it taken and stolen. You don't want that. [00:49:00] The gas mileage on the Bronco. Isn't we didn't talk about this, but it's not the best.
Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. So imagine a roof rack or a roof tent on there, it would just affect that even more.
John Pangilinan: Like gas prices these days aren't the best.
Scott Brady: No, it's expensive for sure. Well, the truck looks great, and congratulations on, first of all, even getting a Bronco, which people have been waiting for a very long time to get a car and then with how awesome it looks too. And I really appreciate your insights on content and on working with professionals and aspiring professionals in the space. Um, as a content creator and as someone who evaluates people's content, do you have any last pieces of advice that you would want to give someone listening that is hoping to get into media that they're hoping to have to maybe be some version of an influencer there themselves, or to be able to work for themselves as a content creator? Do you have a couple pieces of advice that you'd want to close with, uh, to help them on that [00:50:00] path?
John Pangilinan: Yeah, I think, you know, anyone that is serious about doing it, you know, they have to stick with it, um, and have a passion for it. W w regardless of it's, you know, they're, they want to shoot vehicles. They want to shoot landscapes. They wanna, you know, do more adventure, travel, just be consistent, and just really just also find the right mentors. I mean, that's key, you know, you need to find people that have done it. People that have. Have, uh, found their calling and follow those people, see what their path was, you know, before you can create your own. You know, I think it's rare where someone just right off the bat is that guy.
Scott Brady: No, it's impossible.
John Pangilinan: It's hard. And that..
Scott Brady: People look like overnight successes, but it takes decades to get there usually. Who, who were some mentors for you that made a big difference that you, that you count that come to mind for you?
John Pangilinan: In the, in the creative photography space, I had mentioned to you earlier when I was at the, uh, my older agency, I'd worked for a photographer that came from the skate world. Um, his name is Michael [00:51:00] Ballard, and so I assisted him for years, you know, even before I picked up a camera, um, he, he was definitely a mentor in terms of, uh, you know, going on shoots, getting some of that experience under my belt.
Scott Brady: Sure.
John Pangilinan: And then I would say some of my contemporaries and friends now. You know, I really, uh, I look up to them guys like Larry Chen, Will Rogie, DC Chavez, Jose Martinez. These are all guys that you might not be familiar with, but they have definitely made an impact on my life. And, and you've probably seen their work before, you know?
Scott Brady: It's amazing.
John Pangilinan: And you know, I'm thankful that I've been, I was able to meet all of these people, you know, and having that role, um, during the PR for Formula Drift, where I got to meet them in the early stages of their careers and, you know? Guys like that, all of the Hooligan team, you know, well from where they are to, to where they're at now, it's just incredible, you know, the content that they're generating and the audience that they have now. It's yeah. It's, it's mind blowing. And just to see these guys that were like, [00:52:00] going like six deep in a motel room, you know, to like now traveling the world, you know? And it's, it's, it's insane. It's, you know, we're very fortunate to be able to do what we do, you know, and have the friends that we have. I do have to mention some of the guys that I work with that, you know, that are friends and fantastic, uh, creators and overlanders, you know, uh, Richard and Ashley, Lindbergh and Carissa Ganderton, uh, and Owen from Bound for Nowhere. Like those guys, I really look up to them because they're able to do what they want to do. They're still creating, they're traveling and it's, you know, I can't do that because I'm a little bit older and I have a mortgage and the family. Sure. And that maybe later on, but, uh, you know, those guys are definitely people that I look up to.
Scott Brady: No, that's. Great advice. And it is so important that we surround ourselves with other people that inspire us. And it makes all the difference. One of the [00:53:00] questions that we like to ask on the podcast, and it's okay if you don't have an answer for this, but are there any books or readings that you've done that have been really formative to your life, either as a creative or as a traveler, are there books that you have found, and it can even be about philosophy or psychology books that have been really formative you?
John Pangilinan: Yeah. I've read a lot of books and I've transitioned more to podcasts and, and, uh, audible books. Um, I think one that really stands out, um, is Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell. I was given that by one of my mentors, but more on the marketing side of things. And that was a good one. One more recent, um, audio book that I listened to I think that that was interesting and entertaining, and it was one of those books that, or one of those reads that you want to keep listening to and finish was Will Smith's hearing his story was really cool. The founder of Patagonia is a book was really inspiring [00:54:00] as well.
Scott Brady: And was it the Teach my People to Surf something like something like that?
John Pangilinan: Yeah. I don't really remember it.
Scott Brady: Yvon Chouinard.
John Pangilinan: Yes. And that hit that, you know, just the company culture, uh, you know, I, I really enjoy like the foundings of companies and brands and how people built, what they they've done. And so one of my favorite podcasts is How I Built This and that, you know, that one's really..
Scott Brady: A great suggestion
John Pangilinan: Inspiring. Yeah. That one, I. I started listening to, I listened to yours. I listened to a couple on the way up here. And like, you know, there's, there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of content out there, you know, you know, it's a lot of books that are, that are great.
Scott Brady: Have you read Shoe Dog, the Nike story?
John Pangilinan: Yes. That's actually one of my favorites. It is. Yeah.
Scott Brady: Yeah. I listened to that as an audio book while I was on a motorcycle up through South America and I was just enraptured in this guy story. It was just unbelievable what they went through to get through that. It's just incredible.
John Pangilinan: Just imagine being own a secret tiger and just regretting every minute of it.
Scott Brady: [00:55:00] Incredible, incredible. Yeah.
John Pangilinan: That's a good story.
Scott Brady: How do people find out more about you? How do they follow you on Instagram? See your photography and creative work. What are some ways that people can follow you?
John Pangilinan: Uh, so I'd mainly focus on Instagram and my, my handles that at John, j o h n underscore Pangilinan and p a n g i l i n a n. And, um, or you can just check out the email@example.com. So JP and Co is the company.
Scott Brady: Nice, man. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. We look forward to having your truck out in the field tomorrow and shooting that video with it and sharing it with our audience, but, uh, enjoy your day tomorrow and safe travels home, John.
John Pangilinan: Thanks for having me.