top_10_used_overland_vehicles

Show Notes for Podcast #4
The Top 10 Used Overland Vehicles 

SUMMARY

We discuss the merits of the best overland travel vehicles in North America, covering all levels of budget, capability, and payload.

SHOW NOTES

#1 2008-2010 Toyota 200 Series Land Cruiser EDITOR’S CHOICE AWARD
1,600 lb. Payload | $24-30,000

WHAT IS THE OVERLAND JOURNAL PODCAST?

The Overland Journal Podcast features the travelers, topics, and news related to the overlanding community and industry. This podcast is hosted by Scott Brady and Matt Scott, and is a production of the Overland Journal Magazine and the expeditionportal.com website.

Host Bios:  
Scott Brady
Scott is the publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal, and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and include three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar travels include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @globaloverland

Matthew Scott
Matthew is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world's most-remote places by 4WD, and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. Matt is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication, and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore

Complete Transcript:

Show notes for Podcast #4
The Top 10 Used Overland Vehicles

 Matt Scott.

Scott: What's going on?

Matt: You know what? What is today? Today is Friday! When we’re recording at least..It’s been a really good week!

Scott: You know it has been a really good week, I was just on the Land Cruiser 200 series Heritage edition.

Matt: you know how I like black land cruisers with bronze wheels.

Scott *laughing* That's exactly what it was. I was grateful for the fact they do have a white option, still has the bronze wheels. And it comes with an $80.00 Yakima rack.. On top. $90k car. They make great racks but it seems way too small. What another thing was cool, they did a 3rd row delete. Add some additional payload, skipped the running boards out of the factory. The heritage edition sticker on the back window was the original logo which was really nice.
The car drove great. I didn't realize what a difference that 8 speed made, so pairing that 57 with an 8 speed, you get a lower first gear and you also have 2 overdrives. So I think you get better fuel economy and better drivability. It made the vehicle feel refreshed in a lot of ways, and it's been out for a couple of years and nobody has been having any issues with them.
Matt: gearing is very important, I've only driven that particular transmission behind the VDJ 200 with the twin turbo v8 diesel. And I can tell you that it Scott's!

Scott: the diesel is definitely the motor of choice for anyone who wants a 200 series, but the 5-7 would be.. And I think about it often, if you were going to buy one vehicle, which is what we’re gonna talk about today We are going to talk about buying used overland vehicles.

Matt: yes! What are the best used overland vehicles that you can buy right now in North America.

Scott:And the 200 is something we're definitely going to chat about here in a little bit. And Matt, you are the king of buying used vehicles, at least as far as somebody I know. Lol

Matt:Self proclaimed vehicle ADD. I kind of go through cars about the same rate people go through shoes.

Scott: I was thinking underwear.. but…. *laughs

Matt: I think going into this, going into buying an overland vehicle. We are really basing them on those that intend to travel with them. This is no disrespect to the weekend crowd. This is people looking to go international to do extended trips whether they are here, driving to Alaska, the Pan-american highway, whatever.. I think it's important for everyone to realize we are not choosing vehicles based on the fastest or the highest performing technical terrain. We are really choosing things on: what does it cost to repair? How appropriate is the vehicle, does it have enough payload, and also as weird as it sounds how much does it cost to actually upgrade these vehicles. I mean, a 200 series these days you can get in the low $20’s but you're looking at $4k for a rear bumper, or if you want to, lets say, add on an auxiliary tank, you're looking at $2-3k. So we’re really trying to keep that in mind. And know that people are going to modify these vehicles, so we’ve tried to choose things in their respective low, mid, and high categories that are obtainable to people. So, I guess we should just get going, you know. First generation Tacoma, 3rd generation 4-Runner, you can't really beat them.

Scott: you really can’t. If you're looking at what I spent that $10, $12, $14,000 buck on? You can get those trucks. And of course any vehicle will do. I mean have driven around the world in C-Class Mercedes sedans. We’re not saying that you can’t take whatever you want to take around the world but… we also don’t prescribe to this idea that it's something you should recommend that someone do. It’s because someone is choosing “I’m going to do a stunt, or this was the vehicle my dad owned and he always wanted to drive around the world and it’s this personal connection. But i definitely don’t prescribe to this idea that run whatever you bring or any vehicle will do because that is actually short sided and it puts the trip at risk. If the goal is to travel around the world, buy something suitable to support around the world travel. Or to support driving down to the end of Baja and back and certainly it can be done and it has been done in very obscure cars, but there are things that just do it better, and that you can actually get serviced in the middle of Uzbekistan, where getting that "deux chevaux" serviced is gonna be impossibility.

Matt:I'm all for being what I call an overland snowflake, I have been one many times in the past, but I guess we're trying to focus on good advice here, if you want bad advice hit me up on Instagram. *laughs

Scott: And I think Matt and I were talking about it. Instead of focusing on the vehicles initially, it’s more about focusing on the mindset, and one of the big mistakes people make, when it comes to vehicle based travel, is that they spend way more money on the truck, way more money on the gadgets, then they ever spend on travel. If we can encourage everyone listening to think about if you’re going to create a budget for the year, like let's say you want to drive down to Ushuaia, make sure that you’re going to spend a lot more money on the travel itself, the experience, the shipping of the vehicle, and even if you only travel domestically, are you spending more money on those fancy shocks, then you spend on gas. How many times have we seen someone buy a brand new 4-runner and they lease it because they can't afford to buy it, they max out their credit card on suspension and other accessories. And then they don’t even have $5 bucks to take it on a trip. And that is really unfortunate, they miss that opportunity for those experiences.

Matt: Ya, and the thing that my travels have taught me, is that wherever you go and no matter what vehicle your in, you can be in an Earthroamer, you could be in a Vespa, there is always going to be someone local in the country that has a Toyota corolla, so keep that in your head. Most of the off road modifications that you are doing if your focus is travel, i don't want to say that they are not needed because that's not what i'm trying to say, but you don't need 35” tires to do the PanAmerican Highway, i mean, its being driven by commercial trucks and families most of the time.

Scott: and you may want to do really technical routes

Matt: Yeah

Scott: and that's when you need modifications.

Matt: but i think be realistic

Scott: for sure

Matt: and be honest with yourself. If you can step aside from the ego that is, a lot of automotive modification, i think you will just be better off.

Scott: way better off. And then you’ll actually have experiences at the end of the day that will show you at the end of it “oh I didn't actually need that at all.” And Dan Greca comes to mind, our guest from our first podcast, he drove around south america with a stock soft top TJ

Matt: by the way that vehicle has kind of made our list, only because of you.
Scott: *laughs* exactly. So I think that's an important thing, look at your budget, make sure that you're applying more resources towards experiences than you are towards the vehicle, and that's why we really want to focus on these very affordable vehicles first because, why not do that?

Matt: yeah

Scott: I crossed the Silk Road in an $8,000 Jimny, Matt has driven around Southeast Asia on scooters. It's about the experience and it's important to remember that so let's go down our list

Matt, what do you have for our first option for the low category?

Matt:You know, and I don't want to dwell on them too much, but you're going to hear a lot of recommendations from us that are Toyotas, this is, you know, I guess just based on experience. Scott and I have traveled all over the world in Toyotas. They just work. And honestly, if there's a Toyota 4-wheel drive that's in your price range, there are a few exceptions with a few different motors, that maybe are less desirable, but they’re going to be great. If you want something, let's say for Baja, I would have a hard time steering, and they're on a budget, steering them anywhere but to a first generation Tacoma. I mean they are everywhere down there.

Scott: they are.

Matt: And the same goes for 3rd generation 4 runners, I mean some people can even sleep in them if you're not super huge. They are very reliable, they get decent fuel economy from that 6 cylinder, they are great vehicles. There are a lot of aftermarket opportunities that are affordable for them

Scott: and it is an international platform

Matt: it is

Scott: That's the exception with the Tacoma. A lot of people think that the Tacoma has some DNA connection to a HiLux, there is actually very little.

Matt: yeah, very, very little

Scott: in the badge..
Matt” i want to say the doors are the same, or something like that

Scott: possibly but the frame is very different and because of that it has a very low payload. Most international hilux vehicles are going to be a full metric ton, most of the tacomas we got has been 1200-1300lb payload. So it's just important to not overload any of these vehicles, even the 4 runner, based upon a Prado 120 international chassis, you're still dealing with a vehicle with a very low payload. 1400 lbs approximately, so once you start adding those bumpers and sliders and everything else, you can chew up a ton of payload.

Matt: and let's not forget that payload does not include passengers, it does not include fuel,

Scott: right

Matt: you know.. 1400lb payload, you put 2 americans in there lets just be very nice and 2 americans are 300lbs, and then you’re talking fuel and everything, you really have a 1000lbs payload, and then you go from there. You know, on that subject I think keeping things as simple and as minimal while if you are actually traveling, you know that is also a huge, huge part of it.

Scott: ya, I was listening to a book on the plane yesterday called Vagabonding by: Ralph Potts, I think it might be the very best book ever for overlanders too because he just digs into the philosophy of travel.

Matt: yeah

Scott: and he strips away all the gadgets. I mean this guy traveled around the world, kind of on a dare, with no luggage. He left with no luggage.

Matt; huh…

Scott: like a pair of underwear stuck in his jacket pocket. It's pretty awesome?? *laughs* So, it's just a reminder to keep this stuff simple. It's less to get stolen, less to have to maintain, it's less to have to buy initially, and that's really important. And most of our north american vehicles really can’t support a lot of aftermarket accessories anyways with payload. With the exception of course being the 80 series, which would be the soul land cruiser in this price category.

Matt: yeah, and we’ll get to the 80 in a little bit. But i think let's talk about some Nissans

Scott: yeah, yeah!

Matt: because they are massively underrated. Everywhere you see a Hilux, you see a Nissian Navara. Here that is sold as a Frontier. You know that is actually one of the few affordable, mid size trucks that is a global platform, you are going to be able to service that almost everywhere: they are all over South America, they are all over Australia, they are all over..

Scott: they are, other than..

Matt: they even make them in Europe too,

Scott: they do, and other than toyota possibly, or Mercedes, your going to find more Nissan dealerships

Matt: yeah

Scott: globally they are just going to be available everywhere and they are extremely popular and you know we’ve got the Frontier as an option and we’ve also got the xterra as an option. What do you think of the xterra Matt?

Matt: I think that Nissan is absolutely crazy for not currently making an xterra. I think that vehicle has always been, you know, really cool actually!

Scott:yeah..

Matt: it had a strong driveline from what i remember, they had a lot of usable space inside of it, i remember when it came in manual transmission, they were even available with the supercharged motor. Austin had one of those..

Scott: that's right, he did.
Matt: Why there aren't more xterras, or the xterra doesn't get more play in this community, i really don’t know.

Scott: ya, it seems like Nissian is so focused on the west coast, if you go to California you see Nissians everywhere..

Matt: yeah, yeah.

Scott: but the closer you get to the center of the country they just aren't as available but they are a great choice. Also, I like they are less likely to get stolen internationally..

Matt: yeah..

Scott: people that own toyotas, a lot of people don't know this but toyotas get stolen all the time. Fact, we have a mutual friend; Cyril from Guatemala..

Matt; umm.
Scott; originally from France but lived in Guatemala for a long time, I asked him why he drove a range rover classic and he said because nobody wants to steal it. *laughs*

Matt: nobody can afford to maintain it

Scott: So, it was actually the safest car that he could drive around.

Matt: thats funny

Scott: in Guatemala was a range rover classic because nobody would want the car. Where as if you are driving around in a 80 series landcruiser, that is highly desirable..

Matt: yeah, yeah.. So before we get to that 80, let's talk about the jeep cherokee. That is my personal choice. If i was to leave tomorrow, and i had a $5-10,000k budget to get myself on the road, it would be a jeep. THey are here, they are available, they are relatively lightweight, I'll admit i don't know what the payload necessarily is on those but you can take that vehicle, buy anyone of them, take that vehicle to any mechanic is going to know how to work on them in american

Scott: totally..

Matt: put $1000-2000 dollars into it and you're going to have new brakes, your going to have new U- joints, your going to have new alternators, starters, spark plugs, coil packs, tps sensors. You know those are the things that are going to fail on an older vehicle. With the Cherokee, you know, they are really affordable..

Scott: they are..

Matt: to fix, and they..

Scott: they are very capable too..

Matt: you can put a roof tent on one, you can have one essentially stock. If you're not into the crazy off road thing, Cherokee with a roof tent you are going to be able to park that in a parking garage when you go to cities, which is something that people often forget, and it's actually kind of a valid thing..

Scott: And they are all over mexico..
Matt: all over..

Scott: and if baja is your ting that going to be, mechanics down there see those cars all the time,

Matt: yep

Scott : the 4 liter super bomber again manual transmission option, regularly you can get poverty package units with vinyl interior and rubber floor mats and they can be purchased very cheap..

Matt; yep..

Scott: and maintained very cheaply.. It's certainly a choice. I think for me if I was to pick, my pick would probably be an early 4 runner.

Matt: ya..

Scott: I think.. like a gen 1, gen 2.. Maybe the gen 2 with a manual transmission would be a pretty interesting choice.

Matt: ...pretty cool, yeah..manual rear locker..

Scott: Gen 3 was also available with a manual, and the 3-4 V-Six, yah that would definitely be my choice.. Prob a Gen 3 manual transmission 4 runner.

Matt: Again, it's so hard to be the toyotas I mean they are available and I mean they just.. They work. You know..?

Scott: ya, they really do. And there certainly are Land Rovers in that price range, and Matt and I have both owned more of them than we can count.*laughs*

Matt: uhh.. Yeah. there's a reason they are not on the list.

Scott: ya. *laughs*
Matt: I shouldn't say that. Land rover people don't hate me..but, I mean.. If your goal is to travel.

Scott: there's just a better option, if it's not a brand thing. If it's a brand you love then, absolutely travel around the world.

Matt: yes, go for it.

Scott: In a series 1 Discovery, I had one for a long time and absolutely loved it. It was my first car.

Matt: It's needs vs. wants for me, if you tell me I need to have a land rover I'm going to tell you a million reasons why you don't need a land rover. I'm going to tell you a million reason why you don't need a land cruiser

Scott: right.

Matt: if you say you want it, go for it man.

Scott: just enjoy it.

Matt: ya enjoy it, own it. You know?

Scott: alright so.. 80! Tell me, talk to me about the 80

Matt: ok, so.. The 80 is on this list with a big question mark. Now i'm a huge 80 series guy, i have in particular an imported 80 series with the turbo diesel engine. Ya, they're great if you can find one in good condition, they are heavy, they have a lot of payload, they're a little bit under powered, they're definitely thirsty on fuel, i'm just starting off with the negatives because there are a lot of positives. They are very, very well made vehicles. I don't know what you would think of Scott, but I would think that 80 series and the G wagon, they are just mechanical machines. They're really cool

Scott: very robust

Matt: And I am not trying to talk people out of the 80 Series, but yes, can you buy an 80 Series for $3,000? All day long is it going to be a rust bucket that was never maintained? Most likely, it's the maintenance that really makes me question the land cruiser, I mean, I know from personal experience, I have an emotional connection to my 80. It's not a need thing, it's a want thing. You know, I'm a Cherokee into bushings, and very basic service on my land cruiser using factory parts and I do a lot of my own work. That's something that I think everybody says to drive around the world; buy a land cruiser. Ya maybe?

Scott: they are hard to find, it's hard to find that clean sub 100..

Matt: and they are very expensive overseas.

Scott: ya.

Matt: you know you are going to find more affordable parts, parts for more affordable vehicles. I mean the 8- series is a luxury vehicle, let's be honest you know..

Scott: for most people.
Matt: for most people. You go to, I mean I almost said Venezuela, they are literally everywhere there. But you go to some poorer countries, you know the Land Cruiser, are you going to readily find parts in stock?

Scott: most likely not, A lot of people don't realize that even Toyota dealerships, they are going to have parts, service parts for the vehicles everybody uses, which is going to be like a 70 Series or a Hilux,

Matt: ya..

Scott: but finding an 80 series distributor, or an 80 series coil pack if you've got a later model, that's going to be very, very difficult to find internationally. And i think the biggest challenge with the 80 series is you can’t find clean examples anymore. There was a period of time when it was the vehicle of choice, and anybody that could find a clean one they bought it. They modified to the hilt and now they typically are not appropriate for long distance travel. They've been too lifted, too heavy, or wheeled too hard for too long and it's just so difficult to find a clean one. That's why the 4 runner or Cherokee is such a great choice.

Matt: ya, i really think that the 80, great vehicle.. Maybe not the best vehicle if you're on a budget. But if you have the money, and you can put it in, they're great. I mean we took our Land Cruiser 80 down Baja over the winter, and it was great. We had our dog in the back, it was very comfortable, no dust got in.. it's great! You know, but i don't want to say how much I’m into that 80 to get it to that point.

Scott: Yeah, and we had a 96 Heritage edition with both tanks oversized, and you needed all that fuel capacity to get the range out of them because 12mpg with 35’s is pretty common.

Matt: yeah i see 16-18 mpg with my diesel, you know people on the internet like to tell me “oh you know, you should be getting 30 in this.” I’m like no, they weren't ever really that efficient to be honest.

Scott: yeah, typically a diesel you see 30-40% improvement over the gas car which is exactly what your number looks like.

Matt: and in some states that's exactly how much extra diesel costs.

Scott: yeah, true! *laughs*

Matt: Grand Vatara was one I didn't expect from you?

Scott: Ya, I think it’s because it is an international platform.

Matt: sold everywhere
Scott: Any of these vehicles that were sold everywhere is something worth considering, Suzuki is still a very popular brand internationally, you;; find it in a lot of developing countries because it’s affordable and they are also really small vehicles overall, but the Grand Vitara in particular is just big enough to be able to sleep inside and just big enough to be able to carry some additional equipment and there is heavy aftermarket support.

Matt: ya, there is. Really popular in Europe

Scott: ARB bumpers, You can get differential locks, additional suspensions and they do get that, closer to that 20mpg and very reliable motors as well. I had such good success with the Jimney going across the Silk Road that I have never really forgotten the Suzuki as a consideration. And I think a Grand Vitara would be a great fit for a lot of people. It's super cheap, $3000 grand, drives that sucker all the way down (?)

Matt: Ya man, if you're not into the 4 wheel drive thing at all, and you really just want to have experiences, and you're on a budget. THe Grand Vitara would be an option.

Scott: your totally under the radar, in any country

Matt: nobody is gonna mess with ya..

Scott: totally under the radar..*laughs*

Matt: ya so I guess this is where we should move on. We have kind of broken this into, kind of a low, mid, and a high budget tier. So let's move on to the 2nd Generation Tacoma. Those can be had easily $15-20.000.

Scott: for sure..

Matt: good examples these days. Huge amount of after market again. You're starting to creep up in price for those aftermarket accessories, but there are so many of them out there.

Scott: And it doesnt need a lot..

Matt: it doesn't.

Scott: If you buy a TRD 2nd Generation Tacoma. You got a rear locking differential, you got a vehicle right out of the box that doesn't require much..

Matt: no..

Scott: Just addressing some of the suspension issues, that vehicle had a very soft front spring rate, and a relatively stiff spring rate which made them handle, I think, pretty poorly off road.
Matt: ya

Scott: So once you address that, put a little bit better shocks on it and some nice tires you're ready to go. It doesn't really require much more than that.

Matt: Ya, and with that second gen taco, you're starting to open up the ability for a wedge camper on the back or a 4 wheel camper or something of that sort.

Scott: sure..

Matt: which you know, they do, the 4 wheel campers in particular a good option, they are expensive. But they maintain their value and its kind of an all in one package, i mean ..
Scott: ready to go..

Matt: you could buy a bone stock second generation Tacoma, maybe do some suspension upgrades for the additional weight, throw a 4 wheel camper on back, you're going to be very comfortable.

Scott: right

Matt: You're going to have shelter, you're going to have heat, you're going to have your refrigerator. Everything that you're going to have to buy and maybe equip separately, you can just be done and go. You could buy a second generation tacoma and a used camper and be on the road for $30 grand all day long and have everything you need to be very comfortable.

Scott: you really would. And you would just have to be careful at that point about additional accessories . You'd have to leave the ARB bumper at home because you're 800-850 lb into a camper model..

Matt: yes,

Scott: Even older models are a little bit higher. The shell models can be around 500-550 for a second gen Tacoma. Just be mindful of that payload again. It just starts to creep up there.

Matt: ya and you do have that first generation tundra as well.

Scott: another great vehicle

Matt: It my fav used pick up truck. They drive like a camry, and I mean that in the highest regard.. They drive well.

Scott: yep

Matt: they drive well and are very reliable

Scott: 4.7L V8

Matt: essentially the same motor as the land cruiser, essentially the same transmission as the land cruiser. Those are really bulletproof motors. The joke always is, it's what mechanics drive because they don't want to have to work on stuff after they are done. And again one of those with a 4 wheel camper or something in the back would be a really great option.

Scott: ya, some folks within Toyota, years ago, told me that the 4.7 V8 is the most reliable motor they ever brought to north america.

Matt: ya, i believe it.

Scott: and they commonly hit 500-600 thousand miles

Matt: I think the only known issues those things have is the manifolds develop a little crack but.. You know

Scott: it's pretty rare to experience an issue with those.

Matt: ya..

Scott: ya, they're super bombers. And of course we have 4th gen 4 runners. Another nice vehicle, they start to get a little bigger

Matt: a little bigger, you're on the Prado 120 chassis,

Scott: that's right

Matt: which is, again, internationally serviceable. All of your bushing and bearings and that kind of stuff, that seems to go wrong on the road, you know very easy to do. But I don't know if i would buy a 4th generation 4 runner, honestly now that the Gx470 which is not only, it is a Prado 120

Scott: it is

Matt; with a few different body panels, more payload capacity, it has that v8, there are really nice places to be inside and what are those approaching, can you get those for 10 now? For higher mileage one

Scott: ya a high mileage truck you can get $10-12,000 grand. I bought one a year ago for $16k and that was a really clean truck. Again, you have the 4.7L v8, which is incredibly reliable. And in stock form i can get 19mpg out of it

Matt: ya, ya..
Scott: 5 speed automatic, the advantage also of the 470 is because it was originally designed to be a 7 passenger SUV, it has more payload than the 4 runner.

Matt: ya
Scott: and once you pull those third row seats out, you gain that additional weight back

Matt: you do

Scott: on top of it , so if your looking to add some additional weight, you want to run drawer systems, you want to run a roof tent, you want to run some heavier bumpers, and winches, a GX470 is a much better option than a 4 runner

Matt: ya. I mean you're going to have some non essential stuff that may fail on a 470, you know.. Heated seats and all kinds of crazy power luxury things. But at the core of it, it has to be one of the most reliable vehicles Toyota has released here. It has that 47 motor, and the big thing is, and i've been told by several Lexus GX470 enthusiasts. Most of them included maintenance, you know a lot of them were leased vehicles that were dealer serviced, dealer maintained.

Scott: right..

Matt: You know where the 4 runners maybe, maybe not? I don't know if you have any opinions on that

Scott: I think you're right. I think the toyota dealership experience is different. They are not going to get included maintenance typically, and oftentimes people buy toyota vehicles specifically because they are reliable. Which means they often forget about oil changes and stuff like that. That really happens with Toyota relatively often whereas Lexus owners probably are a little more pedantic, a little more likely to take advantage of dealer included service, contracts and things like that. But most importantly it has that additional payload from the 4.7. You can't get the 4.7 in the 4th gen 4 runner. But those are very difficult to find.

Matt: ya. They're pretty expensive.

Scott: and they can be more expensive than a Gx. The only thing I found on the Gx is the leather is just garbage. So, you tend to need to put a seat cover on it, like an Escape Gear seat cover, canvas one out of South Africa. You tend to need to address the leather on the seats. But other than that they're bombers.
Matt: ya, and i guess the reason I brought up that maintenance thing is for any of these vehicles we're talking about. You have to buy the right example of it. And more likely than not, the right example is going to be something that's well factory maintained.

Scott: yep. Absolutely.

Matt: A lot of US states don't have any kind of requirements for maintenance, servicing or registration and inspections and that kind of thing. So something with those factory service records is going to be a really good idea.

Scott: totally. I agree.

Matt: Let's stay on that 47 train of talk and talk about the 100 series land cruiser. Probably one of the best choices

Scott: no question..

Matt: But, again really expensive to maintain, accessories are really expensive, i mean..

Scott: And they are difficult to find low mileage. I remember when I was looking for the Gx470, I was also looking for an LX470 or just a land cruiser 470, and they were very difficult to find under 300,000 miles.

Matt: ya..

Scott: very difficult. And if you found a low mileage, which means hardly driven, it could be twice the money. So they were very proud of a low mileage 100 Series land cruiser

Matt: And they get the money for it..

Scott: they do. And they sell because they are great vehicles. I mean the 100 series has been our number one recommendation in the past for a used overland vehicle. If you can find a low mileage 100 series land cruiser, it is the right kind of vehicle to buy. 1800 lb factory payload. You remove the third row seats and you gain some additional payload on top of that, extremely robust drive train, very reliable 47. In most cases they are a better choice than an 80

Matt; 100%

Scott: other than extreme terrain, they are going to handle better, they're going to stop better. They're going to accelerate better. They are going to be more reliable than an 80

Matt: a little quieter..parts are easier to find. I mean 80 series parts are getting hard to find.
Scott: They are and the 100 Series is a global platform, so if you're down in Argentina and you go to the Toyota dealership, they're going to know what a 100 series land cruiser is. They will be able to get parts and service it. ANd that is definitely one of the advantages of a land cruiser is you just have that global dealer infrastructure to be able to support your trip.

Matt: ya..ya.. But they are again.. Keep dwelling on it, really expensive. expensive to modify. I mean the fuel economy on them is pretty dismal. So you might want to look at for certain areas that you are traveling, you may require a way to carry fuel. Whether that's a rear bumper, which adds quite a bit of cost, or some kind of auxiliary fuel tank. But if you're thrifty, you can, you know there is a factory auxiliary tank you can piece together from parts on the internet, you know you can make it work.

Scott: I think the thing to do with the 100 series is to avoid the standard, throwing the catalog at the car, I think that is a mistake. If someone buys a 100 series land cruiser, they should just address suspension to gain a little bit of ground clearance, go with a tire size that is globally available, and just start traveling with it Just as it is.

Matt: ya

Scott: they are very capable vehicles, the only time I have ever seen an issue with one, was with a center differential lock mechanism. Because we were doing water crossing after water crossing after water crossing in Copper Canyon in Mexico, and the vehicle that I traveled with a lot at that period of time owned by a friend of mine, Duron, he had no issues with the car. It was extremely robust,

Matt: ya, they are really well made. There's also some american options too, that are really well made.

Scott: oh ya

Matt; really reliable, so Chris Cordes, he's the editor for Expedition Portal, he has a 73 excursion that is mint

Scott: so nice

Matt: It's really really nice. Now, he put some money into it but he decided that it was the vehicle that he wanted. The 73 diesel motor is.. Very, very, very loud. But very very reliable in the same regard

Scott: they are. If you look at Gary and Monica Wescott, from the Turtle Expedition, they have driven around the world a few times in 73 power diesel Fords, and they've had very few issues. In fact one of their vehicles they used to cross Siberia in the winter, they had no mechanical failure from that drive train. So a 73 is highly desirable and because of that they are a little more expensive. So finding a clean 73 excursion is gonna set you back $20k.

Matt: ya. Same with the pick up version F-250, F-350, they are sought after by a lot of people. Not just in the overland community but everybody. Everybody likes those things. So it is worth mentioning you can definitely, I don't want to say skip over the 6.0, I know there's ways to make those reliable, but I don't know if that is the best way to spend your travel money. The 6.4 gets a little bit better, the 6.7 I use to own one of those, it has a flawless motor, very quiet, you know, decent fuel economy. But then you know you start to get into the diesel exhaust fluid, and emissions kind of systems ..

Scott: ya i definitely think the 7.3 Fords, either in the excursion variant or a pick up starts to be a global truck

Matt: And it can handle the different types of diesel..

Scott: for sure..

Matt: some people may not realize that the diesel that we have in the United States is ultra low sulfur diesel and it has, you know they measure it in parts per million in a sulfur content its very, very low.

Scott: 50 parts per million

Matt: 50 parts per million, ya get into Mexico, even Mexico..

Scott: 500 parts per million
Matt: 500 and these newer engines don’t necessarily like that where the older engines thrive off it. There is also the Dodge stuff, you know I guess i've trained myself to call them Rams now..
Scott: right..
Matt: but the dodge ram 2500’s and 3500’s, you know with those 12 and 24 valve Cummins motor (34:21)

Scott: very reliable

Matt: if there is an engine worshiped more than the 7.3, the only one in america would be that 12 valve Cummins they are very reliable.
Scott: and they were available with a manual transmission, which addresses one of the main issues with both the ford and the dodge, which is weak transmissions behind all that torque. I would definitely look at finding a manual transmission Cummins Ram and from there you can put a 4 wheel camper on the back, build out your own camper solution..

Matt: huge payloads

Scott: yep..significant payload. You're dealing with enough payload to carry a Cherokee in the back of it, 3000 k pound plus, so well over a metric Ton of capacity in those trucks and that starts to be really meaningful when you want to get further and further a field where you need the durability and reliability of a diesel but then also the fuel cost reduction of that and the additional range. So i think a diesel, one of those north american spec is a good choice.

Matt: ya, I mean we all love to kind of romanticize the 70 series, but if you think in America, what is our 70? It's the big american diesel truck.

Scott: it is

Matt: they are built to work. You can get them dolled up to massage seats, to everything to a vinyl bench seat depending on what you want. And they are not too expensive to fix.
Scott: they're really not. And I trip up to Tuktoyaktuk in the winter on the ice roads, with a bunch of the AEV Rams, and they were nice to drive. They were super safe, comfortable on the highway..

Matt: very comfortable.

Scott: You could carry as much stuff as you wanted out of them. They were really great, I think that a full size Dodge or Ford is worth considering. Now the downside to that is most countries don't have vehicles in that size range.

Matt: ya.

Scott: so, they're going to be big going down the streets, your going to have issues getting into these small Colonial villages,

Matt: ya..

Scott: throughout the Americas

Matt: In particular, the older you go with those American pickups, you know you're going to have leaf springs up front on the Fords for example and turning radius..

Scott: really bad.. Ya

Matt: really not ideal for some of those smaller streets and areas but..

Scott: ya, certainly worth considering.
Matt: ya certainly, if you want to go the camper route, can you do a camper in a Tacoma? 100% people do it all the time. Do you want to do it right maybe consider..

Scott: for sure..

Matt: There's also the F-150’s and the 1500’s those things are ubiquitous, everybody knows those things.

Scott: you also mentioned the Tundra with the 4.7, that's another good choice.

Matt: the other thing that we really haven’t spoken of is the LR4.

Scott: right.

Matt: So there was a huge stride in reliability from the LR3 to the LR4, you moved from a i want to say a BMW engine..

Scott: it was a BMW engine..

Matt: or a jaguar motor to basically what really was a Ford motor and driveline, the 5L V8, i mean, we had one..

Scott: we did..

Matt: for a while and it was flawless.

Scott: literally flawless..

Matt: very comfortable

Scott: not a single warranty claim on the car for years.

Matt: I remember when I drove that thing I would turn the air conditioned seat and the heated steering wheel on and the heat in the morning just because I could. And these are vehicles you can get for $15k, all day long.

Scott: ya, they are very affordable now..

Matt: you could find low milage examples for $20k.

Scott: and they are a 16-1800lb payload vehicle, they have a very high roof load rating as well, 200lbs+ from the factory, they're very comfortable to drive. The only issue that tends to be consistent with the LR4s is the airbag suspension. So you gotta keep that up, you gotta keep those serviced, you gotta keep them in new condition. You might want to bring a spare compressor along, there's also some pretty cool little kits that allow you to have a little bypass to the air lines so you can actually manually inflate the bags on each corner.

Matt: There was an IDT tool that we had that, if I recall, allowed you to clear those service faults,you can put all of the overseas specs stuff on the LR4. So if you want to convert it to coil springs..

Scott: you can..

Matt: you can do all of that. You know, the thing I do caution, I think what makes the Land Rover so great is that air suspension. The moment you get away from the air suspension, I'll be honest, you're driving a subaru with low range i mean, especially if they are lifted on the steel suspension you have no down travel

Scott: ummhmm

Matt; you know, you're sacrificing your up travel with spring rate. It's something to look at definitely

Scott: but the LR4 or the mark 3 range rover they're both great choices,

Matt: ya..

Scott: in this price range. But I think the one thing to caution people is you are still buying a Land Rover or a Range Rover, which means that maintenance and service is still going to be Land Rover and Range Rover prices.

Matt: yes..

Scott: and a lot of people don't realize the first time you take your Mark 3 Range Rover in for full factory oil change and service, you're going to spend $1200 bucks.

Matt: yep..

Scott: And you're going to spend $20 bucks on a Cherokee .. soo

Matt: ya, ya. Exactly. Again, it's a need vs. want thing. If you value comfort and you're in the $10-20k price range, you know.. The LR4 is going to get better gas mileage than a 100 series,

Scott: yep..

Matt: it's going to be quieter..
Scott: it's got a great little motor too

Matt: great motor, plenty of power,

Scott: they're definitely worth considering. If Land Rover is part of your passion then the LR4 is a great choice. Personally I would take the Mark3 Range Rover. Having owned both vehicles, Most of them come with a factory rear locker, they do have more articulation, more suspension travel and a different chassis. Whereas the Lr4 shares the chassis with the Range Rover sport, so the Mark3 is its own vehicle, and it does perform better off-road. It has a slightly shorter wheelbase, a better approach and departure angles overall. So i really like the mark 3 range rover, i owned one and i had no issues with it. It was a great vehicle.

Matt: ya. Particularly the 2010-2012, the last two years of those had the same drive line as the LR4. Definitely be concerned.. I don't think it would be unreasonable to see a Range Rover broken into. Like in some area that you know maybe isn't that safe. Keep that in mind. Ya, so Ok. Let's move on to what we are considering our high price range.
You know these tend to be a little bit more eccentric vehicles, there's so many great options, and they're eccentric because there's so many great options in the low mid price range. Obviously we're really focusing on used cars so some of these you could buy a new Ranger, Tacoma and the Frontiers they are blowing those things out. And they're great

Scott: very reasonably priced.

Matt: there are new vehicles that you can drive off the lot in this price range. But we’re not focusing on new vehicles. You know, we’re focusing on things like the 200 series land cruiser, which is in the US a $70,80,90,000k car and they are phenomenally reliable. I was once told that they were the strongest land cruiser ever made and that may have come from you..

Scott: it was. We were in Nagoya Japan taking delivery of the 70 Series for the Expedition 7 trip. The engineer was so interested in why we chose the 70, and we said you know because it's so strong, so reliable. He’s like “well that's true, but the 200 Series is the most durable Land Cruiser we’ve ever made.” and if you look underneath one you can see it. In fact the trucks that we drove across Antarctica, we would swap out the transfer case from a 200, and swap out the rear axle from a 200

Matt: oh wow!

Scott: into a Hilux, because they can handle the abuse of months in low range at -40F conditions. Incredibly durable vehicle. I would absolutely recommend the 200. If someone says price really isn't an option, I want something that is going to take me around the world with little to no trouble, i would recommend 200 series all day long. They have tons of payload, extremely robust. They have a 240lb roof load rating, you can even convert them over to campers that can be done in Europe. There's a couple companies that are doing that. They are also very capable, but they are big. They are a big vehicle and also going to be expensive to service internationally but if you go to any country in the world you are going to find a toyota dealership and you're going to find local dignitaries, local politicians, that are going to drive 200 Series land cruisers. You're going to be able to get those things serviced.

Matt: And here's the cool thing with the 200 series.. Again going back to the 80 and the 100, i mean the 80 is a classic car at this point.

Scott: right

Matt: it came out around the world in 1989. It's older than me. You're not going to walk into a dealership and find parts for an 80. Or maybe a 100 series, but you're going to want to walk into a dealer that knows, that has mechanics that are trained on that vehicle. They know how to work on it. I mean the people that are working on your car right now, they were probable kids when the 80 came out.

Scott: right..

Matt: they don't necessarily know how to work on that stuff. It's a completely different mindset of auto repair that is the 80 that is the 200. So that's a huge bonus for that car.

Scott: they are incredible safe

Matt: they have been proven in every way possible. I mean .. you know how many miles does Rob have on his that is now at the Land Cruiser museum, I mean..

Scott: hundred of thousands of kilometers

Matt: off road, in Australia, we’re talking corrugations, as I say the size of beer cans, they jut work.

Scott: ya i remember driving that VDJ, that twin turbo diesel 200 series across Australia in 2011 and was one finger on the steering wheel, ultra low driver fatigue, very comfortable, i blue toothed to my phone, and it would easily do the Canning stock or any Cap York route (44:45)
Or technical routes, you could with a 200 series land cruiser. It is extremely capable, extremely durable, extremely safe to drive. Multiple air bags..

Matt: ya..

Scott: all of the safety equipment you get with a modern vehicle. And it still retains that Toyota Land cruiser's durability and reliability and that's what makes it, I think, the number 1 choice in that price range. But, there are some other cool cars.

Matt: it's probably the number one choice as far as used overland vehicles go.

Scott: for sure, for sure.

Matt: You are going to end up spending the same amount of money realistically on a 100 Series, right now as you are on a 200…

Scott: in many cases .. ya. So what would you buy in this price range Matt?

Matt: G- Wagon.

Scott: G-Wagon..

Matt: no, umm. GX460 would be really high on my list. A good buddy of mine Bryon Dorr, from Exploring Elements just started building one that he is debuting at SIMA. It's the first really clean one that I have seen. You know, he had a custom bumper made for it, a custom roof rack made specifically for his needs, they're really comfortable, they are really reliable, they’re a Prado 150 (45:56) you can service them everywhere, you know, again.. Mechanics know what they're working on with this vehicle, its still currently sold. It sold, I mean, a Prada would have to be more common than a 200 Series Landcruiser, they would have to sell more of them.

Scott: They do for sure.

Matt: You know you have that nice V8, it's really quiet, most of them have air conditioned seats, and heated seats and decent payload. I think almost all of them were 7 seats.

Scott: They were 7 seat vehicles.

Matt: there were 5 seats but most of them were 7 seats.

Scott: Ya. So that's going to get you that 1066-1700lb payload capacity which is going to allow you to put bumpers on it and extra items..

Matt: and if you want to do the crazy suspension kind of thing, because you want it but maybe you don't necessarily need it. A lot of the 4 Runner stuff that people are developing these days, the long travel, whatever you want to do..

Scott: it crosses over.

Matt: The GX, why the GX460, ,I think it is becoming a lot more popular. More than it ever has been.

Scott: it is. People are recognizing

Matt: I mean, Lexus did a GX off road concept. Which was really cool.

Scott: just a couple months ago..

Matt: Ya, ya. So they recognize they have something there. You know the G500 Mercedes, they’re interesting vehicles.

Scott: right..

Matt: I’ll just say that. They are, I like to refer to them as the Leica camera of overland vehicles. They are very durable, they’re, I mean, they look bulletproof. I mean, Scott, you know more about the G’s than I do.

Scott: Well, it’s the vehicle I’ve owned the longest out of any vehicle, I’ve had my G Wagon since 2009. It isn’t as reliable as a Toyota, but it’s a lot more reliable than a Land Rover. So it kinda gives you that eclectic feel of a Defender, but more of the reliability of a Toyota. Which I think is unique. So, if you are looking for a unique vehicle that has factory triple diff locks and factory solid axels, factory coil sprung suspension, mine has a 1800lb payload capacity..

Matt: huge.

Scott: so it, right out of the box they were designed to be a military vehicle, they were commissioned by the Shaw of Iran, in the 1970’s to be a military vehicle and an asset protection vehicle. But they are very unique, they’re different, it’s hard to find mechanics that know how to work on them. But Mercedes has a massive dealer network around the world.

Matt: And they haven’t changed much.

Scott: they haven't.

Matt: you can buy a brand new G Wagon, and they are going to be nearly identical to when they came out with the Shaw of Iran. You are still going to find dealer mechanics that know how to work on them, that were trained on them.

Scott: That’s right.

Matt: the Mercedes part network is..

Scott: it’s impressive.

Matt: It’s phenomenal. I mean they can have parts anywhere in the world, you know, in days.
Scott: and one thing that’s actually pretty cool about Mercedes is that not many people know. If you were to go buy a new Mercedes G Wagon today, it comes with a 12 month, unlimited mile, international warranty.

Matt: I did not know that.

Scott: people do not know that. You can go.. If you buy a brand new Mercedes, you can drive it to Europe, you can drive it down Africa. If you have any issues with Mercedes purchased anywhere in the world, it comes with a factory 12 month unlimited mile warranty.

Matt: that’s pretty cool!

Scott: It's very cool, so if you want to buy a new G Wagon, you just walk up to the dealership and say I need a new whatever.

Matt: ya, I mean if you have $130-140,000 sitting in your pocket. But the cool thing with the G Wagon is good examples of G500’s which have that 5 Liter V8 that's bulletproof, you know there US spec vehicles, you can get those for $20,000k. Now some of them are going to have high miles, it’s pretty common for people to swap, you know, newer stuff on them. SO they look a little bit better. The skies the limit with what you want you want to spend on them, they generally are not as modified as some other vehicles can be, but still are a great choice. I always say like, the G wagon is what you thought the Defender actually was. And there are imported G wagons too, if you want to go ex military G Wagon with diesel whatever, you can have them. It was the vehicle of Tom Shepard for some time..

Scott: it was. Ya, i think if you can own one car, and you want something that is unique and different, the G Wagon Is a great vehicle. It does everything relatively well. All the way up to crossing the Rubicon. People have driven them across the Rubicon pretty regularly. They are great choices to consider. But there's not much, this is a rarefied error to get into that $30,000 dollar range. I mean you can certainly buy a trail edition 4 Runner, that's worth considering. I would say as well, you start looking at a 2018 Dodge Ram, you can still get with a manual transmission, there are some vehicles in that range that are definitely worth considering. I don’t know that the newer Tacoma would be high on my list of recommendations,

Matt: it's certainly very popular, for good reasons..

Scott: It's extremely popular, I just think there might be better options now.

Matt: ya, I mean, it's a wonderful truck. It’s made very well. It’s very reliable. You can’t fault Toyota for saying they provided the consumer with a bad truck. I just don’t think that the 3.5 Adkinson cycle motor is my favorite.

Scott: particularly when you pair it with that 6 speed automatic with a very high first and second gear. If they had geared that transmission properly, I think it would have been a completely different story. But if you look at a JL Wrangler, or a Gladiator, it’s a nearly five to one first gear in the transmission automatic. And that makes a huge difference whereas the Tacoma I think is in the high three’s to one first gear, and when you deal with the lower torque off idle engine, a lower displacement engine, it just does not keep up with the competition in that regard.

Matt: ya, i remember there's that ARB Tacoma..

Scott: right..

Matt: horrible gas mileage in that thing and it was very modestly modified. It was a very tasteful vehicle in the way it was done but, I remember Bruce and I took that thing out and it was 10mpg?!

Scott: ya, it struggled. They really struggle.

Matt: But if you regear them..

Scott: that helps..

Matt: they’re pretty good.

Scott: And it's definitely, we’re not recommending against a Tacoma, it's just with the second gen they were so compelling, first gen they were so compelling. RIght now you can buy a ZR2 with a diesel, front and rear differential lock, multimatic suspension (52:46) You can actually get the vehicle you have always wanted, but it has a different look.

Matt: even a diesel if you want it. And that is a rest of the world spec vehicle, again, very durable. You know you have the Ranger that has come out, hasn’t been as popular as i thought it was going to be. But all of those things land in the $30-40,000k price range.

Scott: Buy the 200, be done with it.

Matt: just buy a 200, and be done. But if you want a new vehicle, you know.. Frankly a new vehicle is probably a better choice than most of these. I do think there is one last thing before we wrap up that's worth talking about, and it is the imported trucks.

Scott: for sure..

Matt: we’re putting these in the high end category, even though some of them you might be able to get for $5-10,000 but know that these are old vehicles that require a lot of maintenance and refurbishment.

Scott: 25 year old vehicles

Matt: You're not only buying something site unseen, you know in the case of Japanese vehicles you're buying something site unseen, from an auction, IN Japan, in a language you have no hope of deciphering. So you know, both of the land cruisers we’ve had were imported we got from Steve Jackson at Land Cruisers direct. Now that guy has great relationships..

Scott: he's the one to work with.

Matt; ya, he's the one to go with. I don’t necessarily know if you want to import a Defender 110. I don’t know if there is a stand out person that I’m sure, do your research.

Scott; Nobody i can think of. There's people who are bringing them in and refurbishing them fully. So like Heritage, and those other brands, those are doing nice jobs.. Iconic I want to say is another one.

Matt; Iconic does some high end stuff.

Scott: but certainly on the Landcruiser side, which is probably the vehicle to consider, or a Nissan patrol would be another good example. You can bring in those trucks or you can go over to Europe and buy that 300 TDI manual transmission D1 you’ve always wanted or a G Wagon those are all possible.

Matt: ya.

Scott: And we actually talked about this when we were preparing for this podcast, go to Europe, buy a vehicle over there and actually go see it and make a vacation out of it. Drive it around Europe, and then stick it in a container. You're gonna save a lot of money if you do it that way. I've seen Series 1 Discovery’s diesels, low mileage $7-8000 euros. How fun would that be. Take it on a proper vacation, take it to Morocco and ship it home.

Matt: you can do that in New Zealand, Australia. If you don’t forget the fact that if you're going to be overseas, you buy the vehicle overseas. As long as it's 25 years or older you can bring it back. And honestly you’ll probably save money, well you will save money. At least one way of shipping. And you’ll also be able to bring back a really cool souvenir that depending on how attached you get to it, you could sell it. You could go to Australia right now and buy a Land Cruiser troop carrier for $10,000, and bring it back over here and sell it for $25,000.
Scott: this really is the high water mark of overlanding of any time that i can think of as an overland driver

Matt: so many options

Scott: there are so many options. You can bring in that Defender 110 that you’ve always wanted. You can bring in the 70 Series you’ve always wanted. You can buy a used 200 Series now. You can find a diesel powered, front and rear diff lock, domestic midsize truck.

Matt: We are in the Golden age of 4 wheel drive. I hope people are realizing that. I mean I remember when people thought independent suspension, even in the front, was the death of 4 wheel drive. Then we invented the Raptor. And everybody just forgot about that. They were like “oh you mean i can go 100 mph off road in a factory truck?” OK!
I mean everything has its advantages. There are so many options these days.

Scott: and it’s been fun to talk about it, thank you all for listening. Remember the most important thing is when you set your budget, emphasize the travel first and the vehicle and the accessories second and we will talk to you next time.