Show Notes for Podcast Episode #48

Discussing the Grenadier with Greg Clark, VP of Ineos Automotive 

Scott Brady and Matt Scott discuss the merits of the new Grenadier, acknowledging the strengths of the platform for global travel, and the positive influence of Ineos CEO (and adventurer) Sir Radcliffe on the design. We also include audio of our interview of Greg Clark, VP of Ineos Automotive Americas from the recent prototype reveal in Virginia. 


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Host Bios: 

Scott Brady

Scott is the publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and includes three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady

Matthew Scott

Matthew is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world's most remote places by 4WD and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. He is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore

Full Transcript:


[00:00:00] Scott Brady: Hello, welcome to the Overland journal podcast. I am your host, Scott Brady, and I'm here with my illustrious co-host Matt Scott. 

Matt Scott:  I am here 

Scott Brady: and you have some exciting news? 

Matt Scott: I got engaged. 

Scott Brady: I know that's so awesome. 

Matt Scott: Planning a honeymoon. It's cool. 

Scott Brady: It is so cool. 

Matt Scott: Running away to Africa. 

Scott Brady: That is exactly where a honeymoon should take place, especially with you and Laura. That's awesome, man. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to it. It'll be the summer. 

Scott Brady: Oh, it's so great. 

Matt Scott: Well, I guess kind of fall? September? August? Is August summer or August fall?

Scott Brady: Well, in Africa, it's going to be springy.

Matt Scott: Get my finest Overland expo Parallon and look like I'm... I don't know, 19 hundreds British explorers. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, [00:01:00] exactly. I think I actually have photos of you in just such attire. In fact I think you became an unwitting cover model for Overland journal. 

Matt Scott: I remember that. I was forced to wear those horrible clothes. 

Scott Brady: You were, you were. And like an Enfield rifle and everything like that. That's exactly what happened. 

Matt Scott: I didn't even know how to hold it. 

Scott Brady: Oh, that's so funny. Oh, those are great memories. Well, man, congrats.

Matt Scott: Says the guy who is now wearing a Field Craft Survival. T-shirt pew, pew, pew.

Scott Brady: Those guys are awesome too. They're the real deal. Totally the real deal.

Matt Scott: So we're talking about the Ineos Grenadier, which they had one in the United States recently. Still in prototype stage, and you flew out somewhere to the east coast. 

Scott Brady: I did. I went to Virginia. And they were just super gracious. So, I mean, we were obviously so enthusiastic about [00:02:00] the idea of this car. When I saw that there was an opportunity for us to get hands-on I literally like stocked the Ineos PR team and was able to make it work and they were so gracious and they were so excited to have us there. And, and I think that that is the thing about Ineos that is the most interesting to me and to us as a podcast is the fact that this vehicle and automotive company is born out of one person's passion for overlanding and Land Rover Defenders. So the fact that Sir Jim...

Matt Scott: Let's call him Jimmy. Jim Bob. I don't know, it just sounds cooler like Sir Jim Radcliff.

Scott Brady: Which is awesome. I mean, like that in and of itself, right? I mean, this guy has traveled for months around Africa on adventure motorcycles. He's been to both [00:03:00] poles. I know he has a trip plan for Namibia with one of these vehicles soon, which I think will be a great initial...

Matt Scott: I heart Namibia.

Scott Brady: Yeah, totally. Yeah, Namibia is wonderful. Well we had such a great trip there with a defender. 

Matt Scott: I want to go back. 

Scott Brady: I know, right? Well, you'll be in Africa soon enough. 

Matt Scott: I want out. Let me out.

Scott Brady: Right now. But if you look at this whole idea of a squillionare that owns this massive petrochemical, you know, hydrogen...

Matt Scott: Like actually owns it.

Scott Brady: Exactly. He signs the checks.

Matt Scott: Privately owned. Like I know a lot of people think like Tim Cook is like the richest guy in the world now. Tim Cooks an employee. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. That's right. 

Matt Scott: This is where the money is at guys.

Scott Brady: Sir Radcliffe. Right? He can just decide one morning that I'd like to be able to continue to buy Defenders. Land Rover says no, and when you're a squillion air, you [00:04:00] just, you just like pull an Elon Musk and say, okay, no problem I'm going to build my own. That's the same thing that happened with Elon Musk, he went to the Russians to get decommissioned ICBM's to launch stuff into space and they said, haha... no, go away so then he just...

Matt Scott: Made his own.

Scott Brady: Made his own, he brushed up on some space stuff and started his own company. 

Matt Scott: I mean that guy developing a car is probably like me putting shocks on my truck.

Probably the same amount of effort.

Scott Brady: The Delta? Yeah, the Delta. So when you look at the outcome of that, it's clearly someone that is very well-traveled, has done a lot of remote travel by vehicle, and has a love for land rovers. Cause if you look at the profile of this thing it looks very reminiscent of a defender. In Fact it probably is even more so than reminiscent. I think that there's a couple stylistic cues [00:05:00] that if they had been left out would have made it look less reminiscent? Like the grab handles that are in the place of the Alpine windows. If some of that stuff had been left out, which I see the functional benefit, if it had been left out, it would have looked a little bit more of its own machine. But if you think about a G-Wagon or a 70 series or a 110, they're all kind of the same box. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. To me, it looks like the Santana version of a Defender, you know? You're like, is that a defender? No, but yes... 

Scott Brady: So close.

Matt Scott: Yeah and it was interesting what you were saying that it looks... since it's been compared to the Defender and that whole history of him wanting to purchase the tooling from Land Rover and Land Rover saying no probably they didn't want to admit how horrible their tooling was, but that was kind of mean. I'm sorry Land Rover. Its a beautiful car, but let's just be honest.

Scott Brady: Well it's 50 year old tooling right?

Matt Scott: It's old tooling and like the panel gaps of 1980s British [00:06:00] cars, like yeah. Okay let's move on, but you said it's a bit larger and then when you put into my mind everything I hate about the Defender the original Defender is it's too small.  I mean, I'm not like a huge dude. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, what 6'2, 6'3?

Matt Scott: 6'2, 6'3 but like the B pillar is like, somewhere in my collar bone. So, you develop this like awkward... like I'm going to drive like this or wait. Nope, Nope, Nope. I got to move my torso this way. Cause the pedals actually are different than the... So I'm all for it. It sounds great. 

Scott Brady: And the funny thing is, and this was my experience, you look at the vehicle and you and I know the size of a Defender, so I just kind of expected it to be the size of a Defender and it is not. Like that's one of the things that I can share on this podcast having seen it now [00:07:00] in person is it's actually bigger than a G-Wagon, and the front doors are very full-size. I mean, this is a mid-sized SUV, and the front doors have tons of space. They're much longer than a defender and then the rear doors are longer than both a defender and a G-Wagon. It's probably 116ish inch wheel base. They don't have that spec finalized, but it looks like around that kind of wheel base, and then it would easily take a third row or even like troop carrier style seats behind the second row. So it's a big vehicle. I sat in it. They gave us the opportunity to sit inside it, which it was literally prototype 001. So it's just all diagnostic equipment and stuff. There's no finished interior, so you can't really draw much from it other than that sense of space on the inside, and it's big. It's a really comfortable size vehicle, but it's [00:08:00] also not the size of a Yukon or a Ford Bronco. It's probably going to be the size of the new Ford Bronco. I would say. The other thing that surprised me was, and is very non Defender-ish, if you look underneath this thing, it is like take a G-Wagon, which you and I have both owned and driven extensively, and then make it with the same...

Matt Scott: Add more beef. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Make it like an F-350 underneath. I mean the control arms, and the axles, and the prop shafts, and the size of the transfer case, and the knuckles, and the CV axles... they are massive underneath this thing. 

Matt Scott: I'm about that. I mean more beef, more better. 

Scott Brady: And it's weighed down low too. Right? So it's not in a bad spot.

Matt Scott:  I know that their thing is really the NGOs, you know, eight organizations. That sort of thing. Developing [00:09:00] countries, developing worlds that... and I think that's an interesting strategy to get production going, because if you went and said, oh I want to have this in Europe. You know it seems like there's always moving goalposts as far as internal combustion vehicles and safety standards and stuff. They're like... 

Scott Brady: It's difficult.

Matt Scott: You know, Europe is... europe. Then America, our emission stuff is really, really challenging, particularly for diesel. So get the production going and go to Africa, go to Asia, go to the places that... cause the 70 series is gotta be gone soon. Right? 

Scott Brady: I would sure think so, but it's still the last option standing. So the G-Wagon is gone, the 461 other than some very austere contracts are being finalized, and then the Defender's gone,  the J-8 never really took off.

Matt Scott: The [00:10:00] Defender's still here. So yeah, that's interesting to me because like, I have to say that if it's price competitive, I mean, let's be honest if they're going after the developing world, they're competing with the Toyota Land Cruiser. Anything else is going to be some Chinese pickup truck or something. If it's more modern, more durable, more powerful why wouldn't you want that? I mean, I know we all get very nostalgic and romantic for the seventies, but like as a 2021 vehicle. They frankly suck. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, their design standards are... they're just not consistent with, what's been accomplished in the last couple of decades. With the Grenadier, you're looking at a vehicle that has been designed by Stier Poosh within the last few years to be the ultimate representation of this kind of vehicle. So it's going to be...

Matt Scott: The people who brought [00:11:00] you the Pinzgauer.

Scott Brady: And the G-Wagon.

Matt Scott: And the Haflinger. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, the Haflinger. Yeah, exactly. That's true. 

Matt Scott: Hopefully this sells better than the Haflinger. It's going to be made in France. I know there's a little bit of hubbub with... it was supposed to be made in Wales and then they did the Brexit. I mean, at least that's what I'm going to attribute it to.

Scott Brady: It has to be a big influence to that. If you just, as a business, start off under duress...

Matt Scott: There's only one reason that you would willingly decide to make a car in France. 

Scott Brady: I wonder if they're really good at that now. I wonder if they've become like the Detroit of Europe. Maybe. 

Matt Scott: I don't know. Every time I go there, they're on strike for something. 

Scott Brady: That's true.

Matt Scott: I've tried to go to the top of the Eiffel tower twice and they're striking. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. That's so true. 

Matt Scott: Well, sorry, French people. The thing with French people is that I'm actually just jealous because they have the best work life balance of anywhere in the world.Thats what they say. Like I want [00:12:00] it to be acceptable in America for me to just like open a bottle of wine.

Scott Brady: A bottle of rose at one o'clock. 

Matt Scott: Smoke a cigarette, read some kind of artsy novel. Like that sounds great. But I get like a Big Mac and Instagram here. I'll take Big Mac France.

Scott Brady: They've got it figured out. 

Matt Scott: They've got it figured out. 

Scott Brady: You think we've got it figured out? We totally don't.

Matt Scott: The French do. Wow, that was a little bit of a tangent. 

Scott Brady: It was a good tangent though. It's the same thing about this vehicle. It's like maintaining perspective on the fact that people are going to hate on this car in some way, which is just only their own petulance in my mind. Like, it's just like, hating on the French for only working 35 hours a week and drinking Rose and...

Matt Scott: Cause we're jealous. I mean let's be honest.

Scott Brady: That's the thing, this car is really neat and it's going to do a very good job. 

Matt Scott: Five link front? 

Scott Brady: Five link front and rear and the links were massive and it's [00:13:00] going to have three differential locks, just like the G-Wagon.

Matt Scott: Two engines, so BMW derived gasoline petrol engine. Yep and then diesel, right?

Scott Brady: There's diesel for rest of the world, and for europe...

Matt Scott: It's not going to come to the US? 

Scott Brady: As of this point, it does not appear that that's going to be the case. That's an easy thing for people to hang a hat on, I think is like, oh it's not going to come with a diesel. It's actually not as great as I thought. 

Matt Scott: It's a really good excuse for those who are never going to buy it to have a reason that they weren't. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, that's true. 

Matt Scott: Oh it's not in a diesel. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. But, you know, a modern gasoline with an eight speed... these are great engines. It's a straight six. I mean, we all loved our TJs with straight sixes and that four liter, like nobody ever hated on those motors, those were great motors. Now we've got a modern equivalent of that built by BMW to be a high performance, very fuel efficient, gasoline motor, [00:14:00] with an eight speed automatic. I think it's going to be a wonderful... 

Matt Scott: I love the eight speed they chose, the ZF8HP. That thing is in everything from a BMW one series, two a Rolls Royce Ghost or Phantom or whatever. I mean, it's beefy. I mean that's the same transmission that's in the Gladiator. That's the same transmission that's in a lot of stuff. The Hellcat. 

Scott Brady: Perfect fit, I think. Then the other thing that was surprising to me was Greg Clark, who is the senior VP for North America, for Ineos. I had the chance to interview him and if you keep listening to the podcast you'll hear my interview with Greg here in a few minutes. But one of the things that he brought up several times is that they built this this truck for customer number one and customer number one is James Radcliff, and he dropped this little piece of insight a few times. He says we had to [00:15:00] build it for it to survive Jim, and he mentioned it a few times, which makes me think that either Jim is just really really hard on vehicles. Like he's very aggressive as a driver, which is possible. I have no doubt he's competent, but he may be on the aggressive side of the scale or he's planning on taking this thing really, really remote and very challenging locations and with it being built with the expectations of the owner, I mean like does Jerry McGovern care if the Defender is capable or not? I don't know, but I doubt that that's a high priority for him, whereas James Radcliff is like, this thing has to survive my next expedition to Madagascar.

Matt Scott: I mean, that's cool.I'm all for that. Let's take one to Madagascar and let's do it. I'll go anywhere right now.

Scott Brady: I know anywhere we can go away. Escape. Yeah, [00:16:00] totally. Well, what do you think of it? I mean, what are your initial thoughts and impressions on the vehicle?

Matt Scott: It looks interesting. You know, I think it is a romantic vehicle, more so than anything for me.  I see a market for this from a business perspective has to be the NGOs. It has to be maybe militaries, smaller militaries around the world to think that it's going to be successful here. I don't know. I mean, in what world am I not just going to drive a pickup truck?

Scott Brady: Yeah, I've come to learn that. I learned that very late. 

Matt Scott: If this would have come out, and this is just my personal opinion. If this would have been here five, 10 years ago, it would have had a lot of potential. But now we live in the golden age of the four wheel drive, of the Overland vehicle. Whatever you want to deem it. So it's harder for me to get excited about these new things, [00:17:00] because what we have here is so great. We have the Bronco coming out, 392 Wrangler if you want it, or a diesel Wrangler or a V6 Wrangler, or a hybrid Wrangler, or a small turbo diesel Wrangler, or a small turbo Wrangler or... 

Scott Brady: An electric Wrangler.

Matt Scott: And the quality of those vehicles has gone up and so as the practicality. You've seen the pickup trucks over here change. 

Scott Brady: Everything's getting way more capable. 

Matt Scott: So I think it's cool. I just don't think that we'll really ever see a lot of them here. Like, I don't think there's one particular reason as to why I would rush out to buy one other than just wanting one cause I think that they're really cool. If they do actually come here, yeah probably. Cause I like the concept of it's James Radcliffe's truck. It had to go through his thing and I think the thing that kills most cars is the design by committee. So it's kind of cool, like to see that I hope it actually comes here, I guess, is the thing. I don't want to file it with the Bollinger, [00:18:00] with the cyber truck, with the Rivian, with Lordstown Motors, with what was the one in Phoenix Nicola. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, Nicola is another one. Yeah. 

Matt Scott: There are so many of these new companies that are popping up and they have to get the hype up. You know, we were just talking about this as like the new Ford Lightning or the electric F-150. It's not that Ford wasn't working on that it's that unlike Rivian or Lordstown Motors or whoever these tech startups are Ford doesn't really have to like raise capital. They don't have to raise interest. 

Scott Brady: They have plants and they have engineers.

Matt Scott: They have plants and they have engineers. It's cool to see that Magna Steyr is behind this because I think they bring a lot of manufacturing experience, specifically, Magna Steyr is an Austrian company for those who do not know. They make everything... they specialize in making limited production [00:19:00] cars for OEMs. They're best known for the Mercedes G-Wagon. The Toyota supra is made there. Jaguar I-Pace is made their. Like the Range Rover Evoke was made there for a few years, I think with the convertible. So they have kind of like these outlier vehicles. Magna Steyr, that is their business. So to have them on as an engineering partner, that's great. I think it's ambitious that they're gonna build their own automotive facility, but it's been a lot of advancements with, automation and things these days. And they have actual money behind it. Right? You know, if this was like some guy with an idea that was trying to raise money, I would be like, yeah I'll believe it when I see it. But the fact that James Ratcliff is behind this. Yeah. It's probably going to happen and I wish them the best. Like I want to see these things running around. I mean, I think that these things would do fantastic in Australia. I think that they do fantastic in Africa. I think, you know, a lot of the [00:20:00] emerging world where a lot of the cars that I just mentioned for our use in the US, they still are a little bit too complicated for, for some places. And then they're working on a hydrogen one, which I think is cool.

Scott Brady:  Very interesting. As opposed to electric, they're going to go... which they have hydrogen divisions within Ineos so it is something that's very much within their wheelhouse and expertise.

Matt Scott: Maybe that's what they're putting into Lewis Hamilton's engine. They're a big sponsor of the Mercedes. F1 team.

Scott Brady: I have a slightly different view on this vehicle. If they can make it desirable, if they can make it like a G-Wagon where maybe they partner with like Aston Martin or maybe they partner with Bentley and you go... at the Bentley dealership is all of these beautiful Bentley cars and at the same dealership is the test track. They're really technical and it just appeals to this person, the same person who still buys a [00:21:00] Rolex or an omega. They are a fly fishermen. They like these things that are, that feel or look analog, even if they're not and that they signal about who they are. If they can nail that, if they can get the marketing right, and they can get the messaging right, which means don't try to make it popular. Have explorers drive around the world and use this thing and make it desirable. Not popular, desirable. If they can pull that off, where this guy gets it and his buddy wants to get one that's a little nicer and then his buddy wants...  if you can build that into this desirability, this signaling that I'm an adventure, I drive a Grenadier then they're going to do fine. They're going to crush it. But if that doesn't happen, It's going to be tough.

Matt Scott: I still think their biggest, market's going to be the NGOs. There's just so many luxury SUV's on the market these days, you know, but that's like my opinion man.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Well, [00:22:00] and the thing is we really don't know the one thing that we do know that's very. That's very positive is exactly what you said. This is a well-funded endeavor. It is being launched by a company that has a lot of success, an owner that is fully committed to seeing this come to life.

Matt Scott: That doesn't have to answer... like the board may be his cat and his dog. It's a privately owned company. 

Scott Brady: Right? Yeah, exactly. He just decides, this is what I want to do today, and he does it and he's passionate about, and you can see that he loves it. He loves the whole concept. 

Matt Scott: It looks like, I knew I never said they couldn't amongst many reasons they couldn't build a Defender because of crash test ratings and pedestrian safety and geez, there's this, and then the Bronco, and then there's the Grenadier.

Scott Brady: Yeah, thanks Matt for all of those thoughts on the Ineos, I think that it is such an exciting new vehicle and for this next portion of the podcast, we're going to actually shift back to my time in Virginia with the vehicle and we're [00:23:00] going to look at an interview that I did with Greg Clark who is the VP of north America for the Ineos automotive group. So this is going to be an exciting little discussion with him where we'll learn a little bit more about the philosophy of the company and what we should expect coming next. 


Scott Brady: I am out here with Greg Clark, who is managing the operations here in the United States for the import of the Ineos Grenadier, which is an extremely exciting model for us that choose to travel back country by vehicle. The whole idea of overlanding is to explore the world and there is no doubt in my mind that this vehicle has been designed for just that purpose. Greg, thank you so much for bringing this prototype 001 to us here in the United States. 

Greg Clark: It's a pleasure. Thank you for coming and yeah thanks for your enthusiasm about it so far.

Scott Brady: I mean, we are genuinely enthusiastic about this vehicle because it looks like a homologation of all of the [00:24:00] greats that have come before this day and the things that really worked with certain models and then have since sunset with the modern age. So it's just really exciting to see body on frame. Solid axles. Three locking differentials. Coil sprung suspension, a high quality reliable drive train. One of the questions that I had is Sir Radcliffe he definitely has a lot of passion behind this project. Can you speak a little bit about him as a traveler and his passion for back country and Overland travel? I think that might set the stage for those listening. 

Greg Clark: I think it's quite well publicized what are our sponsor and founder, and actually our number one customer. Let's be clear here that this is a vehicle that is designed to be used and not in theory, but in practice and that's something that Sir Jim is definitely going to do. I think he's relatively well-publicized, whether it be Antarctic trips or whether it be [00:25:00] trips around Africa about exactly what it is. That's Sir Jim enjoys doing in his spare time. One thing I would like to mention is his absolute determination and focus on high performance, innovation, and just performing at a very, very high level, and whether that goes into the companies that he owns and runs, or whether the partnerships or the teams that he becomes involved with, Mercedes formula one for example. The Grenadier cycling team. The America's cup racing, and depending on where you are on the globe, those are either interesting or they're marginally interesting, but it kind of imparts this common thread of determination and insistence upon performance. And performance in this particular case where the Grenadier is about capability. This is something that Jim is going to use personally, and we'll use in anger and we'll use absolutely to its full intent and so therefore as customer number one, we've got to deliver on that. So [00:26:00] that's kind of an overriding theme that I found in my short time with Ineos has flown throughout the company and it's something that I'm absolutely subscribed to, and we've got to make sure that it absolutely works here in North America with the Grenadier. 

Scott Brady: What a rare opportunity to take someone with that degree of passion and not only that, but personal capability to make a dream come true. When I think about bringing this vehicle to the United States, obviously many of the questions come up that we've seen around the diesel drive train, but the diesel drive train is becoming less and less critical. The reality is that ultra low sulfur diesel is not available in many of the remote places of the world. However, you certainly can find petrol to put into a motorcycle, so I have actually been personally found that to be much less of a critical concern, but what would be of importance and concern would be, how do you service a vehicle like this? If you were going to take it across Africa, what are your guys's [00:27:00] thoughts around building out either a dealer infrastructure, which of course will be slow understandably. But how do you provide remote service while that's being built out? 

Greg Clark: Yeah, and I think that's a question that definitely my colleagues are responsible for Africa, Australia, New Zealand is another critical market there where you can get hundreds and hundreds of miles away from civilization. Not necessarily the case here in most parts of the US but still a consideration. So in terms of servicing, well let me start by saying, selling the vehicle and I mentioned earlier on, we're going to establish a network of dealerships and effectively working with partners that share our same values that understand this product and understand the customer. Selling it is almost the easy part. You can take somebody's money and you can actually deliver the vehicle. It's actually maintaining, supporting, and nurturing that ownership experience over the course of time. So whether you're in north America, whether you're in Sub-Saharan Africa, whether you're in [00:28:00] Australia, we're looking first and foremost for the right partners to work with in terms of the sales and service process. And then definitely, you know that there are people who are either going to use the vehicle or live with a vehicle, some distance away from where they've purchased it. So providing an after-sales network that is dedicated to service or having flying doctors, flying spanners, however you call them, that's definitely something which is in the plans and something absolutely it might be even our founder who is in Botswana or in Namibia or somewhere, and the car is designed to be used and so therefore stuff is eventually going to break because we all make mistakes out there and stuff breaks. It's just what happens and how do we respond to that when a customer does break something.

Scott Brady: I actually seen that as a great solution from other manufacturers, particularly bespoke camper manufacturers. Their solution to that problem is you fly in the parts and the help that you need because as this is being built out, that will take time. Totally [00:29:00] understandable and looking at the vehicle with it. Right next to me, I can see how robust it is intended to be. So it will be just those occasional accidents. If you have an accident on the road, or if you have a mechanical issue due to some unforeseen circumstance, and then you just find a nice little lodge and wait until help arrives. 

Greg Clark: But may I say one other thing? Yeah absolutely, we have to have the support network and the infrastructure that inspires confidence in the owner when they want to go off and into the deepest of backwoods or off into the desert. From the get-go though, we've got to make this vehicle. The right balance of technology and simplicity. Durability, capability, reliability, they're kind of the three main tenants for us. We recognize this as to survive, to be relevant, and to be comfortable in this 21st century there are certain amount of technology that has to go in there, but it's keeping that to just the bare minimum, everything you need and nothing you don't and also cutting down the number of ECUs, the things that electronically could [00:30:00] potentially go wrong, which definitely are not that easy to service when you're out there in the field and that really is critical for us and it's clearly a challenge as we manage that balance between technology and simplicity, but we'll have significantly less ECU's in the vehicle than many of the other competitive manufacturers.

Scott Brady: Greg, you're literally speaking the war cry of so many of us that choose to travel the world. Having that emphasis on simplicity with also the acknowledgement that there are regulations and that there are safety requirements that you cannot get around them as a manufacturer. Yeah, and absolutely for good reason. So the fact that that is top of mind for you and your team, it not only makes this vehicle more endearing, but it speaks to the true intention of it as you bring it to market. We know that we're still a couple of years away, but just know that a lot of us are rooting for you and this vehicle to be successful in north America. And I'm actually standing here on this mountain [00:31:00] top overlooking beautiful Virginia and in fact, there's a mountain top not too far away. That was owned by my seventh great uncle George Washington. 

Greg Clark: Is that right?

Scott Brady: Yes that is. So a pleasure to speak to you today, Greg. 

Greg Clark: Scott, thank you for coming. 

Scott Brady: Thank you so much. I much appreciate it. 

Greg Clark: Pleasure.