Show Notes for episode 101
Clay Croft shares a decade of overland adventure, and their new Nordic series

Scott Brady interviews the talented and well-traveled Clay Croft, founder of XOverland and global overland explorer 

Guest Bio:

Clay E. Croft

Clay Croft, currently residing in beautiful Bozeman, MT, has been making movies for 17 years, however Wulff Land is his first feature film. Travel has been a part of his filmmaking life since the beginning and has enabled him to participate in projects and expeditions across the globe. Clay, along with his wife Rachelle, currently owns and operates the wildly successful online adventure travel series, Expedition Overland. His love for daring adventure runs deep and when he is not producing content, you can likely find him wrestling with his three boys, hunting in the mountains or trying not to crash his powered paraglider. 


• Traveled the entire length of the Pan American Highway from Alaska to Patagonia over the course of 5 years, while producing a 36 episode trilogy series on the adventure.

• Traveled the Road Of Bones in Russia.

• Have been able to make a passion of overlanding and filming into a career. 

• Greenland Crossing Expedition (Expeditions 7)( April/May 2108)

• Established Director/Cinematographer 

• Eight year Search and rescue member and former board member.

Host Bio 

Scott Brady

Scott is the publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and includes three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady


This episode sponsored in part by:

Moonfab - Moonshade

GCI Outdoor   


Follow Clay and his team on the links below



Instagram @croftclay

Instagram @xoverland






Expedition Overland is a video series produced by Hiline Productions that follows a team of adventurers and their outfitted vehicles through some of the world’s most remote places. Founded in 2010, owners Clay Croft and Rachelle Croft lead a team of “ordinary people doing extraordinary things.” The production showcases the adventures, struggles, and unique people and places they meet along the way. The show is filmed by adventurers and professional cinematographers who excel at telling a compelling story through documentary-style episodes. Their approach is authentic, professional, helpful, and always family-friendly. The Crofts even include their three sons, Cyrus, Ryder, and Eli on adventures when possible which cultivates a spirit of family adventure and a love of the outdoors.

XO’s fleet of 4-wheel drive vehicles is equipped and outfitted for specific journeys. These trusty travel partners can sustain the team for long periods in comfort with battery systems, on-board refrigerators, camper trailers, recovery systems, and roof-top tents!

Always hunting for the next thrill in adventure travel, the team added flight to their expeditions in 2019 using powered paragliders (paramotor / PPGs).

XO expertly shares tested and proven overlanding gear, products, and tactics with enthusiasts using their video marketing expertise and passion for professional cinematography. An established lifestyle brand, XO captivates outdoor and overlanding audiences across the globe, inspiring viewers to get off the couch and experience the world through immersive and educational videos.

*bio from Hiline Productions

Full Transcript

Scott Brady: Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast! I'm your host Scott Brady, and I am here with the illustrious Clay Croft from Expedition Overland! Clay, man, it's always such a wonder to see you man! Just-

Clay Croft: Good to see you too!

Scott Brady: Yeah, it's so great when we get to spend time together and you have got- you and your team have got so much going on. So our goal today is: let's talk about some of what you got going on, but I really want to talk about Alaska. I want to talk about your adventure there, the things that you've learned, and then let's talk about your next trip. So we'll talk about that in the podcast as well, and then some of the new vehicles you guys are preparing, and then you've got a new podcast that you guys have started as well that people need to know about. So let's let's dive into that.

And a special thanks to Moon Fabrications for supporting this week's podcast! MoonShade by Moon fabrications is the portable vehicle awning you've been waiting for. MoonShade is built to last, simple to set up, and ships with everything you need to mount the MoonShade to most vehicle styles without a drill, right out of the box. With over 60 square feet of shade coverage and multiple setup configurations MoonShade is the ideal choice for rigs of all sizes. MoonShade only weighs eight pounds and shrinks down to the size of a yoga mat so you can pack more of what you need out on the trail. Visit That's m o o n f a b .com to place your order today. For the worst summer sun, treat yourself to the best! MoonShade has you covered!  Thanks MoonShade!

Alaska I was watching the show is so neat to see you interact with your kids and and just the way that you set that whole thing up. What inspired you to do things so different from like, the typical they were usually like this these hardcore dude trips, and now it's like dude, plus little dudes that are learning from the guys. Yeah. So what inspired you to do that so differently? 

Clay Croft: That's good question. I think mentorship has always been something that has been very important to me. I've had a lot of great mentors over the years, and now that- 

Scott Brady: What were some mentors that you can remember in your life and what did you learn from them? 

Clay Croft: Oh, man, I've- my Uncle Jim Boden, who was a legendary cowboy learning from him, working from him- working under him. Then when I got into college, I had some really great like spiritual mentors, stuff that really kind of taught me the ropes of- as you step into manhood, you know, you're actually like doing it. You know, and then they're like, guiding you, do it this way, or maybe not that way, and look this way. As I've gotten into fatherhood, you've got your father mentors, in business we got business mentors, you've been one of our mentors. It's been a part of my life, and it has impacted my life so significantly, like I would not be who I am or where I am in life without these people. 

Scott Brady: Sure, and remaining teachable, staying stay open. It seems like the people that struggle the most in life are the ones that think they've got it all figured out.

Clay Croft: As soon as you think you got it figured out, you're- you're wrong.

Scott Brady: You're in trouble.

Clay Croft: You're in trouble, yeah. And we've all gone through times, I'm sure, I know I have where I'm like, Oh, I feel like I kind of got it made and then just right around the corner.

Scott Brady: Life's like WAPOW!

Clay Croft: Yeah, so I've- now you're like, okay, okay, okay. I don't want to- I'm gonna- I need to stay humble, because I don't like the pain of pride. As much as I can avoid it, it is just too painful.

Scott Brady: And it's a pretty far fall-

Clay Croft: Oh, it hurts!

Scott Brady: When you got a bunch of people that are there with you.

Clay Croft: Pride and thinking you got it all figured out, and if you think you've got it all figured out, you're probably not trying hard enough too, because as you keep progressing and working harder towards bigger and better things, you are always just continually realizing how much you don't know. 

Scott Brady: Well, you have to I mean, that's what I- one of the things that I kind of love about that Dunning Kruger effect is that it reminds us that in the beginning of learning something new, most people are overconfident so they don't realize actually how much there is to learn, so they can consider themselves to be highly competent, even though they maybe know 1% of what there is to know. And then you go through this period of time, this kind of trough where you're realizing like the deeper I get out into the ocean, the deeper the water is, so even though you're further away from land, you've made progress, the water has actually gotten much deeper, so there's so much more to learn and then towards the end of your career, then you get back into that mindset of that you feel that you don't know much, even though you've learned so much. You've made it so far out into the ocean, you've learned so many of the skills that you need for life, but that humility comes back and you realize that, you know what, even though I've done these things, I still only know a small percentage of what there is to know and having that student mindset in life, it really helps us to bring others around us and we realize how much we need help from others and that your successes that you've had, Clay, are so impressive, but behind you are all of these incredibly impressive people.

Clay Croft: Yes.

Scott Brady: Like Rochelle, and even your boys to watch them on the film and the people that you've worked with than that have brought you to that point. It's so impressive to see this powerhouse of individuals that have helped us get there.

Clay Croft: Yeah, it really takes a team. I mean- down to grandparents watching kids, making the time away possible, and taking care of your kids when you've got to go like- go move the needle somewhere, to make it all happen. Mentorship is something that was a foundational thing. Alaska is also one of those places that just I don't know, it's very nostalgic. 

Scott Brady: Sure.

Clay Croft: And so it's really easy to get into some of these ideas of mentorship and stuff when you're up there because you know, old hunting guides and just wilderness and really far back country that it just-

Scott Brady: There's consequences in those forests, too! 

Clay Croft: Oh, yeah. So there's so much to like, okay, let's think through this. I also think, when it came to the Alaska series having that thread of mentorship in it is also kind of my time in life, too, because my boys are getting older. Cyrus was just turning, he just turned 16, and was still getting his driver's license year at that time. And then I got the Van Stralen brothers. You know, they were 19 and 17. And then I got Cyrus who was just 16. I mean, these guys are like they're getting up and running, but they're- they're clumsy. You know, so it's like, oh, do this, do that. And then I brought in other guys that I knew were really on board with mentorship, Ryan Conley and Dr. John. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, Dr. John Solberg, yeah. And you and I had, I mean- I have known Dr. John for a long time, he's contributed to Overland Journal for many years, but we had the chance to really spend time with him in Greenland. 

Clay Croft: That's where I got to know Dr. John. 

Scott Brady: And that's when we- it was interesting, because I was talking with with Greg, about who we should bring along from the medical side, and we were talking about different options and I said, I got this this guy, he's an ex army trauma surgeon, and I said he's down. And Greg's like, that sounds like the right guy! And he ended up being the perfect guy. 

Clay Croft: The perfect guy, yeah. And we- the Alaska expedition came along with... we had some other hardcore ideas for that, but the whole COVID stuff. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure.

Clay Croft: You know, so I had ask John for, you know, hey, do you want to be a part of this other idea? And he was down, and then, so none of that worked out, so I called him back and I said, Hey, you know what, we're gonna do this now! And it's really, really different! It's gonna- I'm gonna have these guys and we're gonna, these young guys, and we're gonna go into Alaska, and we're just gonna go look around and fish and do that, sort of, trip. Do you still want to go? Fully expected him to be like: No! 

Scott Brady: I'm out!

Clay Croft:And he thought about it for a couple days and he said, No, I'm in 100%! So I was like, Alright, cool. And Dr. John ended up being like- he is so fatherly.

Scott Brady: He is, yeah. 

Clay Croft: He's at the expo here.

Scott Brady: I didn't know that.

Clay Croft: So, yeah he's coming in today. And he's... North Dakota boy, and his dad's a farmer and all that so he had so much to offer these guys. He taught them so much, I learned so much, and we took care of each other every night. We're in the Patriot camper, and we'd like, Hey, do you need the beard oil for the night? Here you go! And in the morning, he'd wake up, and he'd make me a coffee. We were always taking care of each other. 

Scott Brady: That's good, that makes all the difference! And also, the Alaska trip that you just did is kind of an origin story, too, because it's one of the big trips you guys started with. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, it's where I started as my camera career. 

Scott Brady: That's right 

Clay Croft: Cinematography career, worked up there on a little show called Our Five Sons, Alaska, and it taught us how to shoot remotely in the back country, living out of this lodge, operating off the generators, and... 

Scott Brady: That was so neat seeing you reinteract with those folks you had-

Clay Croft: The parents up there?

Scott Brady: Yeah, that you had met over a decade prior. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, over a decade, and I hadn't seen him in a long time. And then we did shoot the original Alaska series and when we shot that, what that was in 2013? That was so big, you know, to go to Alaska, that was the dream. Which is so many people's dream still, and it should be! It's an amazing place to go. Especially as your big overland trip- first big overland trip. It was great to go there. Having that kind of experience also led towards the stewardship mentorship towards these other guys, because you're very familiar with the place and you're like- you feel kind of at home up there. And so you can facilitate more stuff, so...

Scott Brady: I was reading this book, the name of the book is- I think it's called Your Rich Life or something like that. There's this concept in there about... you got to kind of identify the stuff that really matters- that really makes a difference for you, that really matters. Because you see so many people that never really achieve financial freedom, it's because they buy all of the things or they buy some cheap version of all of the things because they feel like they have to have-

Clay Croft: They need that stuff.

Scott Brady: All the stuff! So they, you know, they buy a fairly expensive toaster, a fairly expensive this and they're always leasing their cars and they're always trying to acquire all of the things, whereas if you just decide on like, what's really important, like what is your rich life, and for me coffee is one of those things, so I spare no expense for it to be the best, but then I don't I don't spend money on a bunch of other things.

Clay Croft: It's just coffee.

Scott Brady: Yeah, coffee's like, pretty much- yeah. I actually don't really know what it- what else would be on that list. I mean, there are things that like, hobbies- like I love sailing so I do spend money on that, but then I also just don't spend money on a bunch of other things, and then it frees up resources.

Clay Croft: Yeah, as I'm getting further, I'm getting that more and more that way. 

Scott Brady: You got to decide the thing that just like really makes a difference for you, because it's surprising, like, let's say you're kind of into guns, and you spend a bunch of money on guns, but you're not- it's not really the thing that you really love, then you could spend $10,000 that could go towards financial freedom in the future, that could be invested and use to your advantage. Some people are really into cars, and then maybe that's their rich life, is to do that. I think his name is Ramit Sethi, is the author's name.

Clay Croft: I'm gonna have to read that book.

Scott Brady: Yeah, it's a pretty good book. I mean, this was the key takeaway for me, there were other parts of the book that were not so great, but that was the key takeaway of like- because you'll hear other financial advisors, they'll say, Oh, don't  buy a coffee and save that $3 every day, it's not enough. Whereas if you don't buy a $50,000 car? 

Clay Croft: It'll actually move the needle.

Scott Brady: That actually really moves the needle! But you got to figure out what really works for you, and then that allows you to spend those resources on your future and building towards the future. So that was a total tangent, but.. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, no that's a good tangent, your coffee is my 62 series Land Cruiser. 

Scott Brady: See? There you go. 

Clay Croft: Like, you know, I've spent a lot of money on that car. But I get in it, and I take it to go get coffee! And it brings me so much joy, to in that car and drive down to the coffee shop, you know, because life's crazy! Life's hectic.

Scott Brady: It is crazy.

Clay Croft: And then that's what I've spent- and I just love getting in that thing. It brings me so much joy. 

Scott Brady: And it's a 60 or 62, which one? 

Clay Croft: It's a 62.

Scott Brady: So it has the automatic? 

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Rochelle? I mean, she's like an amazing barista. You know, so she, like- I remember coming to your house years ago, and she's like making me like this most perfect cappuccino right there from your kitchen! 

Clay Croft: She still does! 

Scott Brady: Yeah, that's incredible. 

Clay Croft: She loves it too, coffee's a big thing in our house, too. 

Scott Brady: Yeah! At the end of the day, if all of these newfangled trucks that you've got, if they all went away, and you walked out of your house, and you saw your 62...

Clay Croft: I'd be okay. 

Scott Brady: It would be just fine.

Clay Croft: I would be fine. 

Scott Brady: So I think it's just important to know what those things are, so that way, we don't spend a bunch of time, energy... Time is way more valuable than money anyways, but it all takes something from us to try to maintain stuff that people don't actually care about. 

Clay Croft: So true. I think even through the last couple of trips, and I guess getting older, you realize how important time is? You and I have had a lot of good discussions about this over the years on our trips and stuff like-

Scott Brady: Yeah when we're stuck in Land Cruisers for days and days and days. 

Clay Croft:  Yeah, we get to, you know, we're doing amazing things but- and then you get this time of reflection where you're like, man, the time is truly- our time is truly the most important thing that we can have. Doesn't matter how much money you have, or anything, because once you once you lose people in your life, you start to see other things of your life go away, because of the natural process of life, like kids leaving the house pretty soon, or friends or family passing away and stuff. Time is everything. So now I'm not really focused anymore on like how much money I can make or whatever, it's really getting into how much I can manage the time I've got, yeah, to make sure that I'm living the fullest life that we possibly can. And the trips that we plan to go do are our trips that mean a lot to us, because we're going to be gone for months, it better matter. You better be there for a reason and know why you're there not just to be making a cool movie or whatever, you know, and- 

Scott Brady: Well, and what a perfect example of that with Alaska, it's something that was really important to you, it was important to do with your boys and important to do with other young men in your life and it was important to bring other mentors along that you care about, you've spent time with, developed friendships and relationships with. And it really came across in the show, it really came across. I mean, you could see in the beginning that people are getting used to each other. 

Clay Croft: A lot of these guys hadn't met each other! 

Scott Brady: Which is- that even says more about it. And then you start introducing these other folks as they come in to the story, you know, by the time the thing gets to the middle, like everybody's working together, and they're all learning from each other. What were some of the key things that you learned from the young guys, what did they teach you on that trip? 

Clay Croft: It's always refreshing to have new sets of eyes come back into something that you've been doing a lot of and to see their excitement, I take energy off of that, you know, kind of feeds me too, like, oh, yeah, I remember how that felt when this was all so new. It pulls that feeling up and it feels so good. They teach you a lot by- you know, the younger generation, if you're watching them, they're showing you which way the world's going. What's coming and- 'cause they have different priorities, and we talked about different stuff that I wouldn't have ever talked about. So I feel like I got tuned up a little bit, like a little bit more in touch with, you know, what's actually happening out there. You know, from my perspective.

Scott Brady: You know, I don't have kids, Clay, but I have to say, you know, how like, how generational always be like kids these days! 

Clay Croft: Right. 

Scott Brady: I think kids these days are amazing. 

Clay Croft: They're pretty cool.

Scott Brady: I mean, if I look back at when I was like your kids age, I was an absolute maniac! I mean, like, the torture my poor parents endured at my hand, you know, and just like this completely ridiculous and dumb and irresponsible things that I did, like really like destructive things that like I, you know, things you even regret later on. Like, I look at my nephews, you know, like 15 and 17 and they're just the coolest kids on the planet! And they- they're not on social media all the time, they don't- they're so thoughtful of their mom, my sister, they're so thoughtful of her, and they're just- I love spending time with them, they're way smarter than I was, you know, or am.

Clay Croft:They are way smarter than I was too, at that age. 

Scott Brady: So I- and I don't want us to use a broad brush, because there's no question that families are struggling with their kids and maybe there are challenges, but I think in general, they're just much more thoughtful than they... than I was. I mean, they're just a little bit more in touch, maybe they're having to mature too quickly. Pretty amazing. Has that been your experience? 

Clay Croft: I don't know. I'm on the boat that like kids, and especially when they grow up in an adventurous lifestyle, it is amazing how hard you can push your kids into like big things fast, they can take it. I see a lot of folks out there that are like- really, really guard their kids and like, oh, oh, oh, oh! You know, that kind of thing. And you're like, Man, you should let those kids run, they can- there's kids chopping wood at eight years old all over the world running out there-

Scott Brady: No doubt about it. 

Clay Croft: You're afraid to let them have a pocket knife. 

Scott Brady: And it wasn't that long ago, historically speaking, that- and you said it's Cyrus that's 16? 

Clay Croft: Yep. 

Scott Brady: A 16 year old male would likely be getting married soon. 

Clay Croft: Yeah. 

Scott Brady: So I mean, not that long ago in human history-

Clay Croft: Really wasn't that long ago at all! 

Scott Brady: You're right. I think that they're pretty durable and pretty capable.

Clay Croft: Watching my own son Cyrus go from a- he had his learner's permit, he didn't have his driver's license yet, he was working towards it. He had never really been super interested in expedition-y things, overland-y things, but then he started to get his driver's license and it started to click, and then he wanted to drive hard and get all of his hours and stuff. And I watched him over, I mean, we were only in Alaska for four weeks, he gained over 25 hours of drive time in that four weeks that were there. Three weeks of like drivable time. And then, on top of all the other experiences, in those three weeks, I go back and watch that movie, it's amazing how much that kid grew in those three weeks. Like it's gets expeditions, or big trips like that, where they get challenged at this age is like Miracle Grow. You just pour it on him, and it's like-

Scott Brady: Boom!

Clay Croft: They come out a different person, and we all do to some degree, but you know, you kind of taper off as you get experience in life and blah, blah, blah. But right now-

Scott Brady: Maybe more set in your ways?

Clay Croft: They're just- yeah set in your ways! They're just pulling it in and adapting and they- even the Van Stralen brothers that walked- who had been living out of Jeeps for six years, walked out of a trip like that. Like completely different in ways, you know, and we've had great conversations about that. I think for them, they weren't with their family.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Clay Croft: They've done epic family road trips for a long time, and they've been in that environment, and while we're like, alright, well, we're gonna take you two boys, and we're gonna put them in this environment, we're gonna push you over here.

Scott Brady: Interact with new people, new situations, new expectations, yeah. 

Clay Croft: And I talked to Peter and Carol and their folks before we left and they're like, this is just like the best thing ever! Take them and run them hard! Like, this is awesome! So, if you're out there listening, I would say like, man, take the neighbor kid. Take your nephews and your nieces and get them outside and let them chop some wood, let them make some mistakes, let them go get a little lost and keep an eye on them, and it's incredible for younger people to go do this.

Scott Brady: My mom passed away recently, as you know, and so I had the opportunity to take my nephews and my dad on the sailboat, and my nephews had never sailed before. And again, they're super athletic, super smart, capable, like, within a few hours, they're sailing this boat, and I'm just sitting on the back, you know, pulpit seats with my dad, and we're just watching. We're watching these kids, Brady, the youngest was on the helm, and Ethan, the oldest, he's tacking the boat running the sheets. I mean, they're calling out the right commands, you know, we're heeled over, you know, it's just- it was awesome! Yeah, it was just awesome to watch, and I do think that you're right. If you can get the opportunity to allow a young person to feel confident, to feel safe, to try and fail, they're going to surprise the heck out of you.

Clay Croft: To try and fail, that's important. That's important for all of us. Like, we're all so stuck in this idea that we have to get it right the first time, I deal with that with my boys. I don't- that's maybe something I've seen in the younger generation, that they are actually quite afraid to fail, and they wanted to do it right. Maybe it's just from my boys perspective, or whatever. They're very afraid to fail. They take it very hard if they didn't do it right the first time, so I think it's good. Overlanding is a series of problem solving, and-

Scott Brady: And a series of failures.

Clay Croft: And a series of failures! It forces people and young boys, and people in general, gals too, like, it doesn't matter, to have to approach problems, fail up problems, overcome those problems to keep moving. That's one of the best things I think you could ever do, with anybody. 

Scott Brady: It is. And even with our own teams, you know, like when I work with my team, you know, I talk about the fact that I make mistakes all the time, and then we start to be able to talk about that. We start to realize like, oh, we had this mistake we had this issue come up. When not everyone's trying to be perfect or trying to appear perfect, because you can't really be perfect, you can work really hard to appear perfect, but that takes an enormous amount of energy. 

Clay Croft: That's a waste of time.

Scott Brady: It is a waste of time, so I think getting to failure earlier and recognizing like this isn't working, especially on an overland trip, I think it totally relates to that. Because we do talk a lot about... cascade of events. And we recognize that you can make a bunch of small concessions or mistakes, whatever you want to call them, if you make a mistake, and you have a concession, like, Oh, it wasn't that big of a deal, we're gonna keep going, we just punctured a tire, we now have our spare on the vehicle, we're almost gonna make it or we're almost at the top of the hill, and the next tire goes, and then the weather comes in. And the things start compounding very quickly, and I think that as overland travelers, if we recognize early on that failure is a component of it. And that good training, making good decisions, having good preparation, planning, and then not getting too deep into it, where you can't get back out, and that's really where people struggle. And it's not so much that anymore with the communications that we have and people aren't really going all that remote that often but I think it can be really hard on relationships, because things start to not go well, next thing you know, husband and wife are fighting, then nobody's having a good time, kids are crying, you're stuck on the side of the road, and you're waiting for somebody to help you out. Whereas I think making those- recognizing like this isn't working, this isn't going perfect and I need to make some changes, I need to adjust course, that can lead to a lot better outcome I think.

Clay Croft: Agreed, and that there's a mental state that when you approach any big trip or expedition or whatever, that the problem solving is the trip, you know, and making good decisions is the trip and then having a full understanding between the group of people what the expectations of the trip is too, to the best of your abilities, and knowing your thresholds of risk, and when your turnaround points are and stuff, it can manage a lot of that pressure. 

Scott Brady: Especially if everybody's on the same page. Because if everybody's kind of in it for pushing that threshold, I remember and we've talked about that in some of the content that we've put out on the Greenland trip and that you've got in the film that hopefully people get to see soon, we got to a point where we needed to make sure everybody was okay continuing. We needed to start a dialogue around, these are the risks, it's starting to feel unsafe to certain members of the party, there's decisions that needed to be made. And what ultimately ended up happening is that we made some concessions that felt safe enough to everybody, like we're going to only go this much further and then we're going to turn around, instead of saying we're just going to keep pushing towards the final goal. And we were fortunate that the clouds lifted, you know, sun, blue sky.

Clay Croft: Sun came out.

Scott Brady:The sun came out, and it shined on our little expedition, and we were able to make it to our goal, but that doesn't always happen. Sometimes you end up like that musk ox, frozen in the snow. 

Clay Croft: Yeah. So what Scott's talking about is, when we got towards the top of Greenland on the Greenland expedition, we were crossing the the long axis crossing from south to north across the Greenland ice cap. And we were getting very close to the top, and this really epically bad snowstorm, windstorm, came in that was just blowing snow around. We were approaching the end of the ice cap, which means that the glaciers start to begin and there's crevasse zones that-

Scott Brady:No question.

Clay Croft: And we were all like we can't see three feet in front of us. We all have to maintain contact with the vehicles right now, otherwise, you could get lost. 

Scott Brady:You know, we actually did lose visual contact at one point, remember? 

Clay Croft: Yeah, we did. We radioed each other's coordinates to each other-

Scott Brady: That's right. 

Clay Croft: And we were 150 feet away from each other, something like that? It was so close to each other! 

Scott Brady:The dots were basically on top of each other.

Clay Croft: Yeah. But we couldn't see each other. 

Scott Brady:That's right.

Clay Croft: So we were in that kind of an environment, which is an alien environment, it's so foreign. Pretty wild. So I worked through the film to tell that story and I recognized a whole bunch of stuff about what was happening in that moment. The baseline was everyone was there. Absolutely, everyone was there to reach the goal of getting to Wullf Land, touching terra firma on the other side of the ice cap to say that we crossed it. That was no doubt. What was starting to happen was there was a breakdown in communication of the understanding of what the conditions were and what we were going to encounter. Some guys knew what it was you, and Emil knew what it was, some of us did. We don't really know what we're actually heading into here, and so it caused the dialogue. We had it over the radios.

Scott Brady: We even had some in person.

Clay Croft:And in southern person, yeah. 

Scott Brady: I remember Dr. John coming up to the window, and you're right. It was filling in that gap of we're not going to go into the crevasse zone if we can't see.

Clay Croft: If we can't see.

Scott Brady: I think as soon as that was clear, then everybody felt comfortable. All right, we're gonna keep going. And then we could see.

Clay Croft: And then we could, but what an amazing exercise.

Scott Brady: It was.

Clay Croft: Of decision making and understanding where everybody was on the same page, everyone was very aware of not having cascading events start to happen.

Scott Brady: That's right.

Clay Croft: To me, I think- not to pat ourselves on the back, but that was like, the team was running at their fullest potential at that point. Even though it wasn't feeling, maybe, smooth, it actually was smooth, because we were all making good decisions as a team.

Scott Brady: Well, and it was. You guys were communicating your concerns, and then Emil and I were working on the- this is the data that we can share. And then Greg was taking that data in so he could make decisions on how we're going to proceed forward, and I think it really helped. It helped to have clear data and also have a clear understanding of people's concerns. 

Clay Croft: I think that what happened there, just before we reached the end. By the time that we had turned around and got back towards where we got off the ice sheet again in Kangerlussuaq, that went so incredibly smooth at that point, probably because of what had happened in the north, and the decisions, so... 

Scott Brady: It helped a lot. 

Clay Croft: Because that was even, that was way crazier. We'll have to wait for the movie. 

Scott Brady: Which, if you have any updates on that you'd like to share?

Clay Croft: I've had great conversations with Greg, we're working on- we've been working together on that film, like where to get it placed. And it's Greg, Greg Miller's film. So he had- both had good ideas on where we wanted to take it, like Amazon and Netflix and things like that and through a process called aggregation we've come to some ideas that- like, where we can place it now. So it's getting closer, is what I can say.

Scott Brady: Maybe we'll be able to make an announcement soon, which I think people are really excited- it's amazing the number of requests I still get for like, where is the film?

Clay Croft: The longest teased film short of Top Gun. 

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Clay Croft: Yeah, man, that's good stuff. 

Scott Brady: What were the takeaways for you from Alaska? What did you- What did Clay Croft learn from that?

Clay Croft: I learned that I had learned a lot. It's sometimes really nice to go back to some places that are- for me, it's memorable. I had a lot of experiences there. And then when I went back there, and to see how I was able to run and the films we were able to shoot there, I was like, man, we have made some good progress. 

Scott Brady: Come a long way. 

Clay Croft: We've come a long way. And like I know it because the last time that we were there and 2013? Now I had no idea what I was doing. We were having like- we didn't know where we were in the films. We didn't know like, am I am episode five, or am I episode seven? I have no idea. Now when we're up there running, we were like, we're in episode four, somewhere around minute 20. Okay. You know, and the filmmaking is so much better, and we know what we're doing. And so to walk away, kind of just- kind of like, okay, just a breath of fresh air saying like, Okay, I kind of know what we're doing now. Feels so good. 

Scott Brady: You guys have done so amazing. So incredibly proud of you and Rochelle and the team. I mean, it's just it's- been so incredible to watch your journey. You guys keep doing more and more impressive adventures. But then even things like Alaska, where it's not so much that it's this overwhelming overland challenge, you addressed other challenges, like how do we do a good job of sharing this craft with future generations and that's- it shows the point where you guys are at which is really awesome. 

Clay Croft: We love a challenge for sure. But we also really love a story. You know, and storytelling is a powerful thing. So now that we have tools- through experience, and just you know in our filmmaking tool chest, we've got tools to use. We're able now to tell different stories and that's that's fun, too. We're not shy of a good adventure. 

Scott Brady: No doubt. Talking a little bit technical about trucks and stuff. What worked really well in Alaska and what didn't work so well in Alaska? 

Clay Croft: We ran 35 inch tires regeared Tacomas. 

Scott Brady: It's a big tire on a Tacoma. 

Clay Croft: It's a big tire on a Tacoma. It was- but we knew what Alaska holds, a lot of moss cake and mud and river crossings and stuff and I was like, we just frankly, we wanted to try it. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure, let me look cool.

Clay Croft: You know, look fun. They do look cool. I really, really love running a 35 inch tire on a Tacoma. Am I telling anybody out there to go do this? No, I'm not saying that because there's a lot that you have to do to make this work.

Scott Brady: Because once you run 44s on a Hilux, you really want 35s on a Tacoma. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, you really want 44s on a Tacoma. Between the suspension that we had there, the regearing and the 35s and everything, those trucks drove so well. 

Scott Brady: Awesome. 

Clay Croft: It was awesome the production-

Scott Brady: Did you run a mud tire? 

Clay Croft: Yeah, we ran the X3, the GrabberX3. 

Scott Brady: Nice.

Clay Croft: And- which is a really great tire for Alaska. It's super tough. It's- 

Scott Brady: And it doesn't seem overly aggressive either. So it can handle some road miles and-

Clay Croft: Yeah, you can pound the miles.

Scott Brady: Not too loud, yeah.

Clay Croft: Yep, they're really great for that. We ran ATs the first year and that tire did well but you know we have the choice working with General Tire what tire we want to run. I said: no, we're going back to Alaska. We're gonna do a lot of rivers, we're gonna do a lot- like the Dempster Highway in itself can be a thing. And it was. Let's run the heavier X3, it's the tougher tire and it no doubt was the right decision. 

Scott Brady: So then you guys went up to Tuktoyaktuk as well then? 

Clay Croft: Not on this trip. We- because-

Scott Brady: Oh, the other trip! 

Clay Croft: Because of COVID. 

Scott Brady: That's right, and that's why you couldn't get into alaska- couldn't get into Canada, sure.

Clay Croft: And that's why we ferried. A lot of folks were like, Why did you take the ferry? Why didn't you drive up? And I was like- 

Scott Brady: So you went up the Dalton? 

Clay Croft: Yeah, we went up the Dalton. Did I say the Dempster? 

Scott Brady:Yeah.

Clay Croft: Oh, I'm sorry. Got my turns twisted. Yeah, we had to take the ferry we couldn't get into Canada, and all that. I mean, I guess we could have but it would have just been- it was too much.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Clay Croft: It was just too much. Taking the maritime highway up to Alaska was fantastic. We had done that either.

Scott Brady: And it's so beautiful, as I understand. I've not done it but I've heard it's beautiful. 

Clay Croft: You know, I've driven the Pan American- or not the Pan American but that section of the Alcan, three or four times now. So it was really great to do something different. And it was well worth it. So if you're thinking about going up to Alaska, consider either going up or coming back on the maritime highway.

Scott Brady: Yeah, go one direction.

Clay Croft: Go one direction. Yeah, it is amazing.

Scott Brady: So you liked the 35s, that felt like a big win for the trucks. Anything else that you found worked just really, really great, that one thing where you're like, you know what, that one jacket?

Clay Croft: You know, we've gone to lithium batteries now, I think so much about production, like how much power draw we have and going to solar and lithium power. We have been using the REDARC systems just with how well they manage everything, and that we monitor things. Our power problems have gone away.

Scott Brady: Oh, that's good.

Clay Croft: It's been a thing. It's been a thing for a long time. It's not typical of every Overlander that would have these types of power problems but we're charged- we're flying big drones, sometimes up to 10-13 times a day, big battery power packs, all of our cameras all- So we got our power management systems, like, dialed.

Scott Brady: Seems like a win.

Clay Croft: We were just running. It felt like we were just ninjas up there.

Scott Brady: That's awesome.

Clay Croft: It was awesome. 

Scott Brady: What didn't work so well? What what did you take away, like, yeah, I probably wouldn't do that next time? 

Clay Croft: We built out Raven, which is our other 2020 Tacoma. We had put a deck drawer system in the back, we ran a Go Fast. But we didn't have time to like kind of organize it the best. It's amazing how if you don't get your organization dialed on a certain truck, how much resistance and drag it creates on a trip when you're moving things to get to things and it's just you can't see into stuff and you don't know where things are. That truck kind of became a mess. And we have since reworked that truck from that expedition, that's probably the biggest takeaway. We decided that we wanted to go back to a live in camper system and have the drawers different for our operating and our living environment, which is very unique to us. But that's that's the takeaway from there. It's like okay, you know, what we have- where our trucks have gone with, like how we built Meridian with the AT Habitat and the live in system, that is the right way for us to build a truck for what we're doing. 

Scott Brady: Got it. Because you can get out of the weather, you can do work, manage files and stuff at the end of the day. 

Clay Croft: We don't need a cargo truck, we need a live in truck. And so when we got back- and all those products, I'm not dissing products or anything like that, or those companies. It's how we organize it and what we did with it, we just needed it to be different. And so we have done that now. It's here at EXPO completely rebuilt. That things that dream machine. 

Scott Brady: That was the same thing that we experienced, though, with the 79 series on Expedition 7. So you had these Land Cruisers that you could sleep in, they were very efficient. They were intentionally austere, so you just couldn't have a bunch of junk in them. And because of that they were fast. They were efficient, like you never wondered where something was. And then you had whoever was in the 79, the four door short bed pickup, there was no place for them to sleep. So they're setting up a tent or tearing down a tent, they're trying to get all their gear or their bags out, and it ends up taking them three times longer to either set up camp, so then they get less rest and less restoration than the rest of the guys do and then it takes them three times longer to put everything away. And that gear also gets a lot more abuse because it's not stored properly. Things are bouncing around in the back of the truck. It's really heavy. So you're right, once you end up with one vehicle that's kind of incongruent with the rest it affects the people that are in it and it also affects the whole trip.

Clay Croft: Yeah, the repercussions, the feel of it, like the impact, is so real. And you might say, oh, man, you might be listening and say like, oh, that seems really nitpicky. This usually really comes in play about day 10. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 


Clay Croft: You know, you can do anything for a weekend and, you know, have fun. I do that all the time, you throw stuff in and go.

Scott Brady: Gotta wing it.

Clay Croft: This is when you're like, trying to make miles, go see countries, live, have to work, be on top of your game. This is the stuff that really starts to matter.

Scott Brady: It does.

Clay Croft: So, and that's where we're at now. We just- we got to build our lives around these trucks so that they're as efficient as possible so that you can thrive and do the best work possible.

Scott Brady: Yeah, for sure. Well, you guys did such a great job with that. Those that are listening, please check out the Alaska series from the folks at Ex Overland. It just turned out really great. Really neat to see that whole transformation for all of you guys along that. 

Clay Croft: Thank you. 

Scott Brady: You've got a couple of things that are happening that are cool that people need to know about. So you've got the Overlander network. So let's talk about that for a little bit. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, so the Overlander network is... it's a new project, but it's something that we see as very valuable for the overland industry to continue to grow in it's storytelling. Right now there's there's great resources through YouTube and Vimeo and things like that, but there's not really a place that is really helping cultivate really high end storytelling, because frankly, if you want to succeed at YouTube, it needs to be produced as cheap and as quickly as possible.

Scott Brady: Yeah I have no idea how it works.

Clay Croft: It's a race to the bottom.

Scott Brady: We apply our same strategies of quality towards that. And it doesn't seem to make a difference. I could take a video with my cell phone, and it's timely, and it's maybe even something that's not available and just gets, like 10 times more views. It's crazy. 

Clay Croft: It's frustrating. So like, you can go shoot, you know, a project that took you eight months to make and the viewership will be less than somebody- whatever, somebody who just talked to their phone. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, pretty amazing.

Clay Croft: You know, so it is what it is, you know, it's its own beast, and it has its own advantages and stuff. But there's some serious disadvantages.

Scott Brady: There's a lot of good that comes out of it, too. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, for sure. But there's a lot of disadvantages to, like, high end filmmaking, you know, it's just not an environment that's there to reward it. And I think as as we grow, and we- as the industry grows, and people are exploring the world more, the camera tech has really come a long way that allows us to tell really amazing stories. We needed a place that will foster high end content, that will reward it. Frankly, it has to come from behind a paywall. Because obviously, YouTube just won't reward that sort of thing. There's anomalies to that for sure. But if you look at the long haul, and what it would take to build a sustainable network that would uphold high quality content, you got to change the model. Look at Disney Pluses and other things. The way that it's going, there's a lot of advantages to that to the viewership because it can actually support high end stuff, stuff that's really fun to watch but it costs money to make. So that's what we're working on there. It's new, we've got some- we've got already a base of subscribers there that have been holding on and you're out there. Thank you for holding on. As we are working through the business model changes and all that we got a lot of exciting things coming on that a lot of app development and backend stuff. That's what I'll leak right now.

Scott Brady: Yeah, awesome.

Clay Croft: But, man, it just took an army of people at one time, I didn't know what I was getting into when I started this thing. You know, like, Oh, this is a great idea, we should do this. And it is a good idea but it's like okay, but it's gonna take an army of people to do this. At one point we've had 30 some  people working on back end stuff to get the all the apps and the process and the user experience correct, 30 people. So it's been a project.

Scott Brady: So how do people get to that.

Clay Croft: So right now, And then- but soon, they're going to be able to like download it as an app, be able to watch it and just- like you would Disney plus and all that. 

Scott Brady: Awesome. 

Clay Croft: So stay tuned. It's coming in. We got a lot of cool, fun content that's only going to go there. People that have supported us and pay for that paywall, they get to stuff. It'll never hit youtube.

Scott Brady: Oh, that's cool. And then you started a podcast recently? So talk to us about that. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, yeah. 

Scott Brady: What's the name of the podcast? 

Clay Croft: The Ex Overland podcast. It's been a long time coming but you know, just like anything there's a lot of good ideas out there but you got to wait for the right time to do it right. And we're a little late to the game, I suppose, but-

Scott Brady: No, not at all. People want great content. 

Clay Croft: Yeah. So we're really excited. We've started it, just launched it here in May, May 11 is when it launched and it's doing really well. Everything about overlanding and a lot of stuff around Expedition Overland. Like from filmmaking to the the trips that we've done to the trucks that we've built, answering a lot of the questions that come through our channels.

Scott Brady: Oh wow, that's a great idea, so you can actually have an episode on Meridian?

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And you can talk about, this is the vehicle, these are the suspension components we've put on it. So it answers all those questions that people have. What podcasts Do you like to listen to? Maybe they're overland podcasts, maybe they're not, which ones do you really enjoy listening to?

Clay Croft: I listen to all of yours. 

Scott Brady: Oh, thank you!

Clay Croft: Yeah, I learned so much through your your guys's podcasts. I'm always waiting on bated breath for the next OverlandJournal podcast. I like Mike Glovers stuff.

Scott Brady: Yeah, he's good.

Clay Croft: Field craft survival.

Scott Brady: He's a super sharp guy.

Clay Croft: Super. 

Scott Brady: He's a great interviewer and a lot of good energy.

Clay Croft: I like his thinking, like how he thinks, just the way he thinks.

Scott Brady: His approach is really cool. 

Clay Croft: His approach. there you go. Art of Manliness is always a fun one.

Scott Brady: I haven't listened to that.

Clay Croft: You can learn some pretty good stuff.

Scott Brady: I have seen their website and stuff in the past.

Clay Croft: It's a fun one. Order of man, Ryan McClure, Jack Cars podcast I've been listening to a lot of that.

Scott Brady: I've never listened to it but I've heard of people talking about it.

Clay Croft: A lot of intellectual stuff. Like he, you know, he comes from the SEAL Team world. Yeah, he's interviewing like, really sharp ,intellectual people inside the like defense space and beyond like so much more too, so I learn a lot.

Scott Brady: Is it like a Jocko Willink podcast a little bit?

Clay Croft: Yeah, it's a little softer than Jocko.

Scott Brady: Jocko still hasn't like taken a breath in like 20 something years. Breathe, just breathe.

Clay Croft: Yeah just breathe. Welcome to the Jocko podcast. but, uh, I've been listening to a lot of books though. 

Scott Brady: Okay, and what what books have you been listening to that you're digging on?

Clay Croft: If you haven't listened to Endurance you need to, on Shackletons.

Scott Brady: It's amazing. Especially since they just found the boat.

Clay Croft: Yeah they just found it.

Scott Brady: Which is so incredible.

Clay Croft: Incredible. The River of Doubt. Have read on Teddy Roosevelt's journey?

Scott Brady: Oh, through the jungles of South America, right?

Clay Croft: Yeah, just after his failed third presidency right term.

Scott Brady: It nearly killed him, didn't it? They were telling him- he was telling his kid to like, ah, leave me behind!

Clay Croft: You have to read this book.

Scott Brady: Yeah, I have not read it. I've heard it's amazing.

Clay Croft: I was like, man, we are just- if you ever think you're doing anything cool, be prepared to be humbled. The great age of exploration, those guys were just-

Scott Brady: No question.

Clay Croft: 3-10 times the level of suffer-fest that we talk about. And like, yeah, you know, oh, I'm going to go on a trip and I'm going to be gone for a month, they would leave for three months just to start their trip!

Scott Brady: Just to get there, yeah. Yeah, so I've been enjoying a lot of books like that. And it's kind of been encouraging me to get back into big stuff and adventurous stuff. Yeah, that's- they're so impressive, those early explorers. They just are- unbelievable what they endured. And maybe it comes back to kind of what you talked about with kids is, it's amazing what human beings can endure, if they choose to.

Clay Croft: If they choose to, yeah.

Scott Brady: If they take the steps towards experiencing something exceptional in their life, it's amazing what the human being- what human beings can do, what we can actually accomplish.

Clay Croft: It's been kicking my butt a little bit, like, okay, gotta get my crap together. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, we've all- and we've also got to be a little- give ourselves a little bit of grace too, you have three boys that are growing up, and they need their dad around, and all that. So- and in those books that we read of these great explorers, you often don't see the damage that occurs in their wake.

Clay Croft: There was some serious cost. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, that's right.

Clay Croft: To those things. And the idea of it all is certainly romantic but there is fallout in their lives. And if you follow- if you read up on a lot of these guys later in their life-

Scott Brady: That's right.

Clay Croft: It actually- you can see where the repercussions of those great expeditions and stories-

Scott Brady: That's right.

Clay Croft: There is fallout. 

Scott Brady: So maybe that's the opportunity that we have in the modern age, is to recognize that there are consequences for kids and for other family members and for people that are supporting you, where there's a way to do that a little more thoughtfully, kind of like what you just did in Alaska. 

Clay Croft: Yeah, I agree.

Scott Brady: Let's have the kids involved with that. 

Clay Croft: And in the next trip, I'm trying to get more kids involved. I got the Van Stralen, all the Van Stralen kids coming, and then my oldest son will be coming. 

Scott Brady: Well, let's talk about that. So this podcast is going to come out after your announcement tonight?

Clay Croft: Yep.

Scott Brady: At the Equipt Ex Overland party.

Clay Croft: You're right, that is tonight, I should prepare myself!

Scott Brady: Well this will be your dry run of announcing it on the podcast!

Clay Croft: Very exciting, it's very ambitious, just due to the timing of the world. But we are about to start production, we are- actually already have started production on season five, the Nordic series, we'll be shipping to Europe: Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Iceland. A 10 part series, I'm gonna try to get them all at 45 minutes each. It's going to be ten 45 minute films and- of our journeys traveling that side of the world. 

Scott Brady: You talked about some philanthropic efforts while you're there as well, is there any of that you want to share?

Clay Croft: We are working a mission in Poland, which we are calling phase one. And we'll see how far we get. And I don't know if we'll ever touch Ukraine or any of that, there's so many- I had meetings on this yesterday here with people.

Scott Brady: There's a lot of dynamics around it.

Clay Croft: The dynamics are incredible. But, if we can, we would like to do some humanitarian efforts. There's a lot of humanitarian things- whether I don't care where you are on the politics of it all, there's people that are hurting, they're suffering-

Scott Brady: And they need help.

Clay Croft: And they need help! And that's what we'll be there for. What we're going to make sure of is that we're there to help and not make a stunt of it.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. 

Clay Croft: But we all like- that's all part of what we like to do.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure. Give back a little bit to these places.

Clay Croft: Yeah, so we want to do that, if it makes sense, if not, we won't. But we're working very hard on that right now.

Scott Brady: Finland will be fantastic. There's a bunch of four wheel driving to do there. Are you going to get into Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia at all, you think?

Clay Croft: Yeah, you gotta like thread the needle right up against Russia, right? 

Scott Brady: That's right. 

Clay Croft: That's my goal. If we can do that, what an amazing time in the world in history to go through those places, right? 


Scott Brady: Well, and Tallinn, Estonia is just- it's just a beautiful city. I mean, and then that's where you take the ferry over across the sea there.

Clay Croft: And have you- you've done that?

Scott Brady: Yeah, it's great.

Clay Croft: How long is that Ferry?

Scott Brady: Overnight.

Clay Croft: Okay, awesome.

Scott Brady: Yeah, it's not a big deal. It is perfect, and I think you guys would really enjoy it.

Clay Croft: So yeah, and then we'll run all the way up there. Try to experience a lot of the- I love the Arctic regions.

Scott Brady: Yeah. You'll go up over the Arctic Circle again, and on another continent. And then you talked about going to Nordkapp, which is the furthest point north that you can drive on a road that's on a continent. So I mean, there are- you can go up to Svalbard and there's roads up there, but-

Clay Croft: But you couldn't drive there.

Scott Brady: Or like what we did in Greenland, you can drive over some snow, but this is an actual road that goes to- extremely far north. Much further north than you would find in Tuktoyaktuk or in Prudhoe Bay, so...

Clay Croft: I don't know the latitude of it, but if we do this, we've been to the farthest north that we can drive in North America. This will be in Europe. And then we've done it in Greenland. That one's gonna be tough to beat. I don't-  you can't beat that one.

Scott Brady: Well, and-

Clay Croft: Unless- I mean, you could.

Scott Brady: Well, and you were actually at the farthest north that you can drive in Asia on a road already, with me, when we were on the E7. You can drive further north on ice roads in Russia, but when we were in Russia, and we wen up to Magadan, there's a point where you go-

Clay Croft: To the very top and then it turns back down.

Scott Brady: Before it turns back down. That's actually the furthest north that you can drive in Asia.

Clay Croft: Cool. Well, it's a very overlandy thing to go check the box, which is fun.

Scott Brady: Of course it is! Of course it is, I mean...

Clay Croft: Is it that significant? I guess it is.

Scott Brady: Well, no, it's just-

Clay Croft: But it's enjoyable.

Scott Brady: It's just a fun thing to do along the way, you're like, Yeah, this is like, this is a pretty unusual spot on the planet, so.

Clay Croft: Reaching the ends of the earth is pretty cool.

Scott Brady: Because they usually yield surprises. Like Tuktoyaktuk, what a surprise. To get there and you can get ice cream in Tuktoyaktuk. You really- I mean, there's people that are having day to day lives, they run the local general store, and to us, it feels like this incredible adventure to get there. And to them, it's their day to day.

Clay Croft: It's just everyday.

Scott Brady: And Nordkapp is similar. There's the- there are these beautiful Norwegian cities that are up there. They're stunning. And this is their day to day. There's like an accountant that's going to work as you're driving by on what feels like an adventure of a lifetime. So it's all about perspective and I think that's what we gained so much from our travels, right, Clay? Is that perspective of how other people live allows us to be more considerate of that. I mean, think of all of those people that we interacted with in Russia, they're suffering now too!

Clay Croft: Yes they are.

Scott Brady: And that's not to take away from... it's not to make a statement about anything. It's just that people are suffering. Individuals are suffering as a result of this conflict. These are people that you and I interacted with.


Clay Croft: Yeah, great people, really great people.


Scott Brady: Yeah, they were wonderful people. And they wanted to take pictures with us! And they wanted to- remember all those guys with the guns and stuff? And they just like grabbed me, and they wanted to like take a picture with this neanderthal looking dude. You know? And it was awesome! And it was awesome! And that's the perspective that we gain, is that people are generally good, and governments are generally screwed up. And if we remember that people are generally good, then it allows us for some empathy, despite what's going on.

Clay Croft: Exactly. I've seen it all over the world. It's truly about people. Overlanding is about seeing the people, and you have to interact with the governments that have to run on these people, but-

Scott Brady: There's bureaucracy.

Clay Croft: It's everywhere.

Scott Brady: And I think that that's part of the adventure, is overcoming all of that stuff. That's why that's why I love border crossings, people are like I hate- I love border crossing! Because itis mass pandemonium. And there's some problem you gotta solve and a smile goes such a long way.

Clay Croft: And a sticker. And a cold drink.

Scott Brady: Yeah, I remember the first time I handed a cold coke to a Mexican military guy that was handling a checkpoint and and I handed him this ice cold Coca Cola, and the grin on his face! I mean, I didn't need to do- he didn't ask for it, but it was just like a way- and it was after they'd already checked me out, I was about ready to leave, so it wasn't like I was trying to bribe them or anything. Just totally made a difference in his day.

Clay Croft: Gotta go travel the world, huh? That's what it all comes down to.

Scott Brady: Or whatever version of the world that means for whoever's listening.

Clay Croft: That's true.

Scott Brady: There are people that are going to have different adventures than you and I have, and it's going to see the world that you want to see, whatever version of adventure that is.

Clay Croft: And it is all extremely valuable. Whatever that is.


Scott Brady: You learn so much about it.

Clay Croft: And we've been able- you and I are very fortunate to have been doing some amazing, incredible things over the years. But just going backpacking or overlanding with your family is so incredibly important.

Scott Brady:I would say it's better, I would say it's- I would say someone taking their family and their kids out to have an adventure like that, even if it's to Southern Utah, it's far cooler than anything I've ever done, because it's going to make a huge difference in those kids lives.

Clay Croft: Absolutely.

Scott Brady: It's a reminder that we have such short time here, such short time with the people that we love, and that we can really influence kids. I mean, they're gonna grow up, off they go, and they're going to take those skills that they've learned like what you did in Alaska, and that'll- it'll serve them for the rest of their life.

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Scott Brady: Clay, man, I'm just always so proud of you, proud of you guys.

Clay Croft: Thank you, you too!

Scott Brady: You guys just do such an amazing, amazing job, inspirational content that you put out, content that really makes a difference for people. And I'm just grateful for all of it. And it's just always such an honor to have you on the podcast too.

Clay Croft: Thank you. Thanks again.

Scott Brady: Yeah, man.

Clay Croft: Appreciate your friendship. Love you, man.

Scott Brady:  Love you.

Clay Croft Yeah.

Scott Brady: Alright brother.

Clay Croft: See you.

Scott Brady: Yeah, we'll talk to you all next time.