Show Notes for Podcast Episode #56

2021 Bronco Badlands Sasquatch for Overlanding



Matt and Scott do the deep dive on the new 2021 Bronco Badlands Sasquatch for overland travel


 This podcast is supported in part by:

RedArc Electronics




 Full Transcription below:

­­­Bronco Podcast

Scott Brady: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host, Scott Brady and I'm here with my illustrious co-host Matt Scott. 

Matt Scott: Hello.

Scott Brady: Your last days as a single man.

Matt Scott: My last actual bit of work as a single person, I've made it quite clear I am shutting off for the next three weeks. I'm focusing on Laura. 

Scott Brady: Yes. Which is awesome.

Matt Scott: Yeah. It's been fun. We've started this business together and we need time away from it to grow it and grow our relationships.

Scott Brady: So after this podcast, you're done until you step back off the plane from Africa. 

Matt Scott: I am not working until the 13th.

Scott Brady: That's amazing. 

Matt Scott: Very clear. I am incredibly, incredibly excited.

Scott Brady: Well, not only am I grateful that you're here, obviously the listeners are going to be thankful that you're here as well. Cause we have a [00:01:00] very fun, awesome podcast to discuss today, which is the 2021 Ford Bronco, which is... 

Matt Scott: Beautiful looking. One of the best exterior designs. I think that we will see in that modern internal combustion era, I continually refer to.

Scott Brady: Yeah, we've had a lot of test vehicles and I have never once had one that caused quite the pandemonium. 

Matt Scott: I have

never had somebody in my family ask for a ride in a press car before. Wait... yeah, pretty much. I don't think so... I don't think so. Like a little fanfare around it, you 

Scott Brady: know? Yeah, big time. I mean, you try to go to the grocery store and you get out and there's people taking pictures.

Matt Scott: I would love to say that women are flocking towards me for driving a Ford Bronco. Mainly it's men in cargo shorts. They'll have various patches afixed to them... [00:02:00] to their bodies. So total dude magnet, sorry Paula for using the D word. Sorry. Male genitalia attracting magnetism is the way I would maybe describe the Ford Bronco. I get a lot of thumbs up from dudes.

Scott Brady: It seems like it's also going to be very popular with everyone. Just like a Wrangler, I think it's going to be really popular.

Matt Scott: Well it's got a cute face, right? It kind of transcends gender. 

Scott Brady: Totally. I mean, it's a classic looking... It's a modern classic.

Matt Scott: It's really good looking. I mean, there's little things that you can kind of nitpick on it, but overall if you have exactly two minutes, three minutes, it's a pretty good car. It's got some problems. The end.

Scott Brady: Podcast is over. 

Matt Scott: Podcast is over. 

Scott Brady: But it is [00:03:00] totally different. Right? Which I think the Wrangler desperately needed competition and like, this is where I'll give Jeep a lot of credit is that they never stopped taking it very seriously. There's other vehicles in our segment that, for example, the Forerunner is a good example of that. It is a great vehicle, but because they don't have competitive pressure. It is one of the best choices in the segment. They don't need...

Matt Scott: But Toyota's are currently great because they don't break.

Scott Brady: Well, and it's also, I mean a Forerunner is great off-road and it's this kind of classic interpretation, this Swan song of like the 150 platform Land Cruiser.

Matt Scott: I love five speed transmission and it's really outdated engines that get horrible gas mileage, but they're simple and they run.

Scott Brady: They do, but I like it when our industry has more [00:04:00] competitive pressure, like we're seeing in the mid-size trucks. 

Matt Scott: You already saw Jeep in retaliation or response to the Sasquatch package. You can now get 456 gears. I want to say they're calling it a 1 1/2 inch lift and 35 inch tires on a Wrangler. 

Scott Brady: What is it? The recon, is that what it is? 

Matt Scott: Extreme recon package.

Scott Brady: And that's good, but right... So then I think that anytime we see this kind of competitive pressure we're also going to most likely see some response from Land Rover with the Defender. We're going to see them coming out with packages for the Defender that are going to be more off-road capable, because I would say that even more so than the Wrangler, that the Bronco is a price shopping or a competitive shopping decision for a Defender. Which isn't, you know, that's not a coincidence because...

Matt Scott: It's somewhere in that spectrum. I think one [00:05:00] of the things that the Defender does is that it does so well at the lower end of its price range. It still feels like a quality Land Rover product. You're maybe not getting winds or leather as you would in the X. But on the SE I believe it is... is that the lowest one? 

Scott Brady: It could be. Whatever the base model is.

Matt Scott: Whatever this model was. You get some interesting fabrics. They do that really cool green textile to it. You're still kind of getting a lot of the same functionality and quality that you are. 

Scott Brady: And you still get the airbag suspension system, which is super comfortable. But I like the fact that the Wrangler now has this pressure in space and Jeep has responded. If you look at in the last year they have revised their payload capacities. So we've always been a [00:06:00] little bit critical of the Wrangler for having basically a thousand pound payload and now if you spec out a Rubicon and you look at the specs 1300 pound payload. So that's a big improvement. It gives you a lot more latitude. But then when we look at the Bronco, the Broncos got a thousand pound payload, so it matches the old Wrangler. So Jeep is definitely staying ahead of the game with the recon package and everything else and it is certainly common and important to compare the Bronco against the Wrangler and we'll do that at the end of the podcast. But you drove it. 

Matt Scott: I drove it.

Scott Brady: We had a press car for a couple of weeks.

Matt Scott: We kinda had it on and off. You drove it more on technical off-road. I drove it daily for a bit. I did some dirt road stuff. Yeah it's cool. I think that if I could in a couple of sentences describe the Bronco... it falls [00:07:00] victim to that expectation reality thing. The exterior design is great. The interior design is great. I think the execution on the materials that they've chosen in the vehicle, like the steering wheel, looks like it came from a Ford Fiesta. The switch gear looks like it came from a Ford Fiesta. I kind of feel bad, but in one of my little Instagram things I kinda like scratching the dash and I don't like having monster fingernails or anything. It actually scratched it. Like the materials that they have chosen are just really cheap. That's not to be mistaken with being utilitarian. There's a difference between being utilitarian and being cheap because we have the hottest new product and we can get away with it and that's kind of what certain aspects of the vehicle made me think. [00:08:00] I've owned a lot of Fords, please don't mistake me for being like a Ford hater. I had a brand new 2016 Superduty KIng Ranch. I had a 2018 Raptor that was brand new. I've got an earth roamer that's on a F-550. I'm not anti Ford. For example, you could get a 3.5 eco boost King Ranch F-150 for the same sticker that this Bronco is and I can't help, but think that because there is more competition in that segment, Ford was willing to spend more money. I think it was an economic decision like you had some great designers. I know that they worked with a lot of fantastic folks in the off-road industry, particularly in the Baja side of things that gave him a lot of great feedback and then like a bean counter in Detroit was like, you know, no we have to use the cheapest materials possible because we've got a cash cow in our hands. Just my opinion, [00:09:00] like when you open the door, it feels like the door flexes and like the window vibrates and rattles and then the door panel moves. That concerns me because like every Ford I've owned rattles after some off-road use. Wrangler doesn't. Forerunner doesn't. I mean, Defender probably does 

Scott Brady: At first I thought, well maybe they need to make the doors really lightweight cause you can remove them, but I think you make a valid point. I think that they did what they could to make them lightweight. It's like it's 45 pounds for the rear door, 55 pounds for the front door so that someone can lift them. But You showed me an example of that door handle, like the component of the door...

Matt Scott: The door handle's three different components and like, if you kind of like grab it from a weird angle you can get your finger kind of [00:10:00] caught in it and it'll pinch you. It's just like three pieces of cheap molded plastic assembled together. But then here's the thing that frustrates me is like the F-150, which realistically runs almost the same price range as this vehicle has, like these wonderful rubber, solid door handles. So that's maybe what frustrates me is they know how to do interiors. They have cars... they have trucks that go off road that have massaging seats. Again, it's not a matter of, oh well I don't care about interior, I'm taking it off road. As some people have said to me. It's like, dude it's not that it's that the materials just are cheap. You know, if you put a dog in that car, like I did not feel right. Bringing our Greyhound in because I thought it would scratch that crap out of the interior.

Scott Brady: Well, [00:11:00] you make a good point. When we took it out with the video crew, you guys will be able to see our evaluation of the vehicle on YouTube about the time that this drops. When we just had a bag, like a duffle bag in the back, it did wear on the surface of the back of the center console after just a few hours of use... So there's definitely experiences that I have that have validated what you're saying and it's too bad because like, when I look at the interior it's exactly what I would want it to look like, and like even the seat material feels like. It's something that's going to be easy to clean, but it doesn't have that cheap vinyl feel to it.

Matt Scott: Have you ever tried wearing shorts in Arizona with whatever that material is made of? 

Scott Brady: I have not seen use case 

Matt Scott: I will tell you that my rose [00:12:00] colored skin sticks to it in a painful manner. It's like something that they would use for like incontinent hospital patients. Like, I don't know how else to say it. Like it's not that it was a... it's like somebody from Detroit that's never actually been off road has gone and said, oh this is great and it's real cheap and we can get a great deal on it and get this much cents back to our shareholders. But like they could have gone for like a nice cloth that was probably the same price. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, maybe. I mean I liked the look of it and it felt like it was a little more durable than like the dash for example. But no, I didn't wear shorts because most of the time, I don't wear shorts. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. I will tell you, Laura sat in at once and was like, Nope. Does not breathe. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. Well, that's a good point.

Matt Scott: But I'm saying these things cause I want the vehicle to be good, like this seat design very comfortable. Very nice. I like [00:13:00] how it looks. I like how the interior looks. I like the functionality of the interior. I like how everything is designed. They've clearly consulted with a lot of four wheel drive experts and professionals and asked what they wanted and then an accountant got involved.

Scott Brady: You know how that always goes, right?

Matt Scott: It's like GM in the nineties. It was like, you got those fat people french fry buttons that you pressed and then when they got their french fry grease on them after pressing them a few times, like they turned white... you know, it's just like cheesy cost-cutting, but the drive line is fantastic. The drive line is class leading. 

Scott Brady: I really liked that 27. 

Matt Scott: I love that 10 speed. I had that 10 speed in the Raptor. Flawless transmission. You can barely feel it shift. It just... it is tuned to get to that peak torque output. This particular engine was the 2.7 liter EcoBoost. So that's, and I don't have this memorized 330 [00:14:00] horsepower on a presumably premium fuel and 415 pound feet of torque. If you use regular fuel, it is 315 and 410.

Scott Brady: That's amazing. 

Matt Scott: I love the fact that Ford does this though, that the ECU is self-learning that if you are in Baja or wherever you are, like I've been down in Baja with the Raptor. You're in Bahia de Los Angeles and you get 85. It's like, do you want some gas or do you not want it? The fact that it's not specifically just tuned for that.

Scott Brady: Just get the Magna. The 85 Magna?

Matt Scott: There's no... what do they call it? Prema. So the transmission and the drive line combination, fantastic, class-leading. Maybe not as fast as I would've thought it was for a premium engine option, but Ford kind of does that as they're like, oh you want your V8 cool. Want your hybrid, cool. You want this or [00:15:00] this or this? They give a lot of options. You know, it just, it keeps it in the power band and it just, it goes, it's got a real beefy mid range

Scott Brady: Yeah and the transmission is also self-learning and I found that anytime I like to try to drive a vehicle in manual mode just so that I can have some driver intervention, but I actually found that I didn't like...

Matt Scott: With that many gears, you're slower than the transmission.

Scott Brady: Yeah. You have to preemptively shift because it's fairly slow to shift in manual mode. So I just found myself leaving it in...

Matt Scott: I mean, I think there are twice as many gears as a Forerunner. There are the... I know that it has more gears than the Wrangler.

Scott Brady: Two more.

Matt Scott: The ZF 8HP. I'm not going to say that it's a better transmission than the 8HP. I mean that 8HP [00:16:00] is used in everything from a Jeep Wrangler to a Rolls Royce Ghost to an Aston Martin DB 11. It is a great transmission. For most people, this is pretty good and I'm, and I'm curious as we've talked about this idea of competition, what that will make Jeep do. 

Scott Brady: I wonder if the 10 speed is just so well suited to a turbocharged engine. I mean, it seems like if you can keep it in the turbo boost by shifting more often, then you're just getting a lot better overall performance out of it.

Matt Scott: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I thought it was great. I thought that the chassis was fantastic. It has a really like quite unique rear suspension architecture with kind of a trailing arm, quite a beefy trailing arm. Which is why it's so good at high speed in dirt and that it actually has kind of like a [00:17:00] coil over. So for the aftermarket, it's what people are going to be able to do on the aftermarket. Like I was talking to a good buddy of mine, I guess who will have to remain nameless in this. One of his friends is working on the Ford race team thing and the performance they're getting out of this thing is, you know, beating their Bronco R. You know, whether or not that's marketing speak, I can't verify, but I can see it. To be able to lift the rear without really having to worry about as many different angles and control arms and track bars and all that kind of stuff.

Scott Brady: And the angle that those coil overs are at definitely is going to allow for quite a bit of lift. The front I thought was tuned just about [00:18:00] perfect for my needs. And that's where you see the real benefit over the Wrangler is the independent front suspension. I know heresy, heresy, heresy, but like...

Matt Scott: IFS for most situations is better than a solid axle. I mean, as we were talking before this, does the Wrangler probably have more absolute capability than the Bronco? Yes. Is the Wrangler going to be maybe easier to modify and have less of a ceiling than an IFS system? Yes, but we're talking about a car that has front rear lockers, 35 inch tires. That's a factory designed around that for IFS. So you're not talking about, like, wonky control arm angles on a Forerunner to fit 33s. You're talking about proper OE level suspension angles and handling on 35s and it doesn't feel like it's on 35s. 

Scott Brady: Nope. It drives great and I think that they got away with the 35s because they built it in the way that they designed the body. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. It [00:19:00] was designed around it. 

Scott Brady: Exactly. So they can take a huge tire and those wheel wells. The rear suspension for me... so higher speed, dirt travel, probably driving it at 65 to 70% of what I would drive at race speeds for this kind of class vehicle. It was really excellent. There's a couple of things that you have to manage. If you go into Baja mode, that helps a lot. It's very well tuned for that. The rear suspension, I'd love to see a little bit more compression travel, and I think that's going to be easily addressed with the aftermarket and then it's fairly firm on compression.

Matt Scott: It's pretty highly sprung, I think that translates into why you're not seeing much body roll, but I think the faster you're going and if you're getting into any kind of whoops or stuff where you're going to be, using the length of the travel, [00:20:00] I can see why they did that. But I feel that if you did. 5 to 8% softer rate, it would fix all the problems that...

Scott Brady: I think so. That's my feeling. I'd like to see a slightly softer spring rate, no change in compression damping. I like the rebound that it's got. Lots of control, very little porpoising and then if I could see even 15 millimeters of more height in the rear or more spring length in the rear, that would really help. But I mean, I was driving it fast through this wash and you know, where we had posted centuries and everything else like that and these are big events and this truck just soaked it up. 

Matt Scott: It's really good.

Scott Brady: And then when you're, of course, when the car starts to start to rotate on you and that turbo comes on, then things get really lively, but they actually did a great job [00:21:00] of tuning it, the vehicle stability control, enough that it kind of knows when it's going to come onto the pipe like that. It does a pretty good job of not letting you over step it.

Matt Scott: Well, there's also, you know, there's going to be the Warthog or whatever they're calling it. That's the Raptor version. There's already been some spy photos that have kind of leaked out or people have seen it in the wild. You know, what Ford is presenting on this chassis, I do not feel is the capability of the chassis and that's what's really exciting to me.

Scott Brady: It's got so much, so much more. I mean this is a stock vehicle and it is so good. I mean, that's the thing for everybody that's listening to take away unless it's super important that you've got 40 inch tires on your Wrangler. I mean, for this, for a travel vehicle, It is incredibly capable out of the box. I don't know that I would change any... even the tires are great. I don't know that I would [00:22:00] change anything out of this vehicle. Other than again, maybe like a 15 millimeter longer spring. 

Matt Scott: There's one thing that I would change. It would be a top that didn't give me a headache at 45 mile an hour from whistling, they're recalling all of them. And I think that they're doing recalls on vehicles that haven't even been delivered. They've had to push things back and I think that that even goes to say that maybe they're realizing they pushed the cheap envelope a little bit too much.

Scott Brady: Isn't Wabasto making the top? 

Matt Scott: Yeah. But of course you're going to throw the supplier under the bus. That supplier just made that design. They were handed a CAD file by Ford Design or Ford Engineering or whatever it is. I could hear the argument of quality control issues. If you looked at ours, there's one side that kind of sat about a half an inch over. 

Scott Brady: Totally, and there's big waves in it where it's mounted.

Matt Scott: But sitting down with like [00:23:00] a... well, an aerospace engineer that I can not hope to remember. He's like, oh, well, yeah, it's making this noise because of this and this and this and this and this because of how it's designed, this is the guy that designed the Apache helicopter. I'm going to say, he knows what he's talking about a little bit you know, so maybe that's where it bit him. And to call myself out, which I think it is important to say. I know that I'm complaining about the interior and I'm complaining about the kind of fit and finish of certain things. This one is a very early production vehicle. That being said, there have been Broncos that have been delivered already to customers. So I don't know how valid that is, but we did get an amazing chassis. So maybe Ford put the money into different things. You know, if somebody was going to say to me, hey let's get a totally baller chassis that has all this capability. But to do [00:24:00] that, we're going to have to have a Ford Fiesta. We're going to have to have a $14,000 car interior on a $58,000 test vehicle, you know, like I'd consider it. 

Scott Brady: Yeah and that may be the result. Like we were talking about before we hit the record button. I think that I'm in this particular case with this vehicle, I'm actually having a little bit of difficulty overcoming my positive bias towards it. So I'm viewing the vehicle...

Matt Scott: Don't worry, all of Instagram's in the same boat. 

Scott Brady: I'm viewing the vehicle with these rose colored glasses because of the functional performance of it, the actual functionality of it on the trail, on the dirt. As a travel vehicle, I've been so impressed by it. And it also looks so charming that it's like, literally it's won me over because...

Matt Scott: Oh, it looks great.

Scott Brady: It's so charming. That's why it's so great that you and I have the chance to kind of riff on these [00:25:00] things, because you may be in the same boat with a different vehicle and I'm like, well what about... and it's really important because after you shared all that with me, I sat down in the car this morning before they went and picked it up and I'm like, yeah look at that. I mean the dash, you could definitely tell it needs to have less of a scratchable surface on the dash. It needs to have maybe a harder finish. Then there's lots of little touch points that are beyond this functionality that I find so useful. That you're right, are definitely...

Matt Scott: And, you know, I was at Monterey car week, and chatting with a few other journos that have had access to the vehicle and it's kinda, it kinda seems to be a similar thing. Everybody loves it. Everybody loves how it looks. Dang that interior's cheap. You know, but hey this is a new vehicle. I mean, [00:26:00] this is the second greatest Bronco they've ever made. There's the first one that was amazing, and then they messed up every successive one and then this one's number two, but this one has potential to be... no it doesn't have potential to be number one, you can't overtake the heritage of love... 

Scott Brady: That's difficult, but in so many ways...

Matt Scott: I mean it is a better vehicle.

Scott Brady: It is, just like we talk about an LJ and a JK compared to any previous Wrangler. It's so much better. It doesn't mean that a long wheelbase, TJ isn't awesome. It is awesome. It's just, the new ones are really good.

Matt Scott: I was talking to my soon to be father-in-law Ron and he compared the interior to his 2007 JK. It was about that quality of finish but to his point he said it was a Sahara and he paid $22,000 for it at the time. So, you know, it's like you kind of [00:27:00] hook line and sinker people on the internet and you're like, oh my God I have to have it and they're gonna look at it.

Scott Brady: And I wonder if it really even matters, aren't they sold out for two years of the vehicle. It seems... 

Matt Scott: That's where I go back to the accounting decision. It's not something that I think that designers did and I've chatted with other designers at car week and just friends of mine during this. It's like, yeah it looks great but not the finest hour of execution. Was kind of the thing. I think one of the interesting things is the hype of this vehicle on the internet. No one has had a measured response to it. Like if you were on the Insta sphere of things everyone was all about it and I have a theory. I have a theory. I chat with a lot of people. I know, and I'm not kidding, at least [00:28:00] 10 people that were told, like people with a voice, that they were in contention for running or in the running to get a Bronco... of course they're going to say great things. They dangled the carrot in front of all of these guys. Of those people I don't know... I guess I know one that did, but he always was going to cause he was kind of media and had a legit audience, but like almost everybody I knew that was like relatively popular in a Jeep or a Tacoma or whatever, and all these people were posting about it left and right. They didn't shut up about the thing. It's the greatest. It's this. Oh my God. It's so much better than a Wrangler. It's so much of this. Then you ask them, have you seen one? Have you driven one? Like, have you had access to anything that Ford hasn't produced? Not trying to toot the editorial horn, but that's the difference between an influencer who gets paid for their [00:29:00] audience, and an editorial who gets paid for their ethics. Now that you're starting to see journalists get these vehicles, I think for me you're starting to see consistent responses, et cetera. Great truck... maybe not as good as some people have been saying. But that's kind of an interesting tactic. That's a great way to...

Scott Brady: They hedged during the time that it mattered most by getting the influencers all thinking about thinking about the possibility of getting this. 

Matt Scott: Oh my God. I could get out of my Tacoma. People will do anything to do that. 

Scott Brady: And that's why we love having this podcast because we can say whatever we want. Because thanks to you listeners that's how we get paid because of our readers and listeners. Not because of [00:30:00] some OEM that's paying us to say something.

Matt Scott: Exactly. So let's talk about some of the great things. Love that there's a manual transmission. Love that there's a seven speed manual transmission. Love that it's a Getrag. They make fantastic boxes. Coolest thing is that the crawler gear is 6.58. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. That's insane. 

Matt Scott: So it's a seven speed, but it's really a six speed.

Scott Brady: It's six speed. 

Matt Scott: I'm totally fine with that.

Scott Brady: With like your grandad's granny low. It's got like a granny low first gear in a six speed manual transmission. I hope that people buy them so that they don't stop putting them in the vehicle, because like if I was to get a Bronco I would definitely want the manual. 

Matt Scott: Oh yeah. Hell no. I'd rather the 10 speed. 

Scott Brady: I know, but I would want the manual just because it just...

Matt Scott: Daddy likes to go fast. 

Scott Brady: I know. Yeah and it's just that... it's just again, that charm of...

Matt Scott: 50% of 911 buyers have opted for a [00:31:00] manual transmission and I think that that's cool. It's the highest take rate of a manual transmission in a modern vehicle... I like enthusiast vehicles. 

Scott Brady: That's really surprising.

Matt Scott: I think in England the Voxel Astra or something probably is still manual.

Scott Brady: But that's actually very interesting. I didn't know that. 

Matt Scott: Specifically that's GT3. 

Scott Brady: Okay. But I wonder what the second highest vehicle would be with that same idea. We should do a podcast just on...

Matt Scott: If I was to make a guess, Toyota GT 86. 

Scott Brady: Okay. Could be.

Matt Scott: That would be it.

Scott Brady: Could be, it'd be the right buyer and everything. Yeah. 

Matt Scott: Well actually, I guess it would be STX. It's not available. So the advanced four by four package gets you a 3.06 low range. When you have a seven speed with that Kroll gear, that's a 9.75 to one crawl ratio that is until Jeep released [00:32:00] this extreme recon package. That was class-leading. Can you ever argue that it was class leading because you can now buy an extreme recon package and you can't actually get a Bronco? I don't know how you'd say that. Right? You know what I'm trying to say?

Scott Brady: Yeah, totally. 

Matt Scott: It's funny. They were able to respond faster than get this into production. It's got a Dana 44, Advantech M220 rear axle for axle geeks. That's the same thing that's in a gladiator or a JL. 

Scott Brady: One thing that's important to talk about on those axles is the differential locks. So there's a couple things about this vehicle that I found on the trail that were really interesting. So the sway bar disconnects. I don't know what the technology is, but I think it's electromechanical.

Matt Scott: Magic...

Scott Brady: It's got fairy dust. It's like some kind of a magnet... electromagnetic sway bar disconnect. So it's not like [00:33:00] geared like a Rubicon is. So you can be under full pressure. It can be crossed up under full load and you push the sway bar disconnect and it immediately relaxes the suspension. 

Matt Scott: And they also have one option where it forces articulation. 

Scott Brady: It sure feels like it does that. So maybe it's hydraulic like a KDSS on Toyota. I don't know what the technology is. 

Matt Scott: It's magic. 

Scott Brady: Exactly. It does feel like magic because you can be on the trail and just realize like, oh I'm in a position where I need to have the sway bar disconnected and you can push it at any point and it doesn't need to get unbound in order to release, and then you can push it again and the next time that the vehicle is level it is back to connected. It probably is something where there is a counter forcing it because I found that head toss in this vehicle is [00:34:00] half of what it is in a Wrangler. So it's probably some kind of control or hydraulic control that'll allow...

Matt Scott: I have like this permanent bruise about right here on a Wrangler, because I'm kinda tall enough that I hit the soundbar all the time.

Scott Brady: No, I mean a Wrangler has again more articulation, no question but the Broncos got a 620 ramp travel index and much less head toss. So I do like that the lockers will also engage and disengage at any point. So they don't need... if you're under driveline tension...

Matt Scott: Of an air locker in a arguably more reliable electronic format. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, exactly. That I really liked. Just like giggle mode is the donut feature. I don't know what they call it...

Matt Scott: See, you had a lot better experience with it than I did. 

Scott Brady: Well that's right, because you try to do it like DG.

Matt Scott: Decomposed granite for people that aren't from Arizona, it's like [00:35:00] a crappy sand. It's like sand walking on and you're like, ow ow ow. It was a 50% reduction in turning radius from, you know, cause I kind of sat there like a constant throttle. Constant, full lock. Did it without. Did it with and since it had recently rained, I could actually kind of see how it was working. It's really cool. It works better than the 200 series. 

Scott Brady: Yes and I think that's because of tires. I think that the technology is probably similar, but the tires are so much better on the Bronco. But I had it down in a sand wash and it would rotate the vehicle around. Within the length of the wheelbase. So the kind of cone of sand that it would create was maybe two feet in diameter, so that rear tire would swing around in a two foot circle.

Matt Scott: So if you're incapable of doing a three point turn this is [00:36:00] a wonderful feature for you. It's the new hill descent control for me. But I'm a curmudgeon. 

Scott Brady: I know, it's so funny because there probably are practical applications for the use of this donut thing, but I found myself doing about 8,000 of them in this wash and giggling the entire time. I think the production crew was thoroughly exhausted and tired of being swung around in circles, but it...

Matt Scott: Paula, were you tired of Scott? 

Scott Brady: Never. She says never. Yeah. She's being too kind. That's the nice thing about having nice people that work with you.

Matt Scott: There's 8,000 different packages. So I'm just gonna try and get this right here. Lots of specifications. So there's the base big bend, Black Diamond, Badlands in the seven speed. A base [00:37:00] big bend, outer banks, Black Diamond, Badlands, wild track, first edition Sasquatch. Package equipped base, big bend... there's a lot of different things and I mean give the people what they want, and then there's packages, I believe, within the packages. 

Scott Brady: Yes. Like we had a Badlands Sasquatch and I don't know what the difference is between those two. 

Matt Scott: I know it was a Sasquatch. It looks cool. That color that came out is like the 10th anniversary of Rubicon.

Scott Brady: Area 51 is what they call it. 

Matt Scott: Area 51.

Scott Brady: Super cool color. Great color. I like the... They're probably totally non-functional other than if you wanted limb risers, which are usually non-functional, but they had these brackets on the leading edge of the hood that I loved. From a practical perspective those brackets line up perfectly with the center of the tire. So if you're wondering where your tires are going to end up, you can [00:38:00] look and see those limb riser brackets or whatever... people are probably going to hang high lifts on the front of their vehicle, which is going to be ridiculous. 

Matt Scott: High lifts that they don't know how to use. Won't ever use and then when they get in a small fender bender will decapitate 12 children. 

Scott Brady: Well, or you have to remove it every time to get into your hood, right? Or it's like, when you see it mounted to the front of Jeeps. It's like then people can't lift their hood up because it's too heavy and...

Matt Scott: But if I have a high lift I will never argue against the utility of one.

Scott Brady: Totally useful. I don't know. But they just ended up being allocated wrong many times. Many, many times. So, many different options. So one thing that's really interesting and I don't know if it's that people are... it's kind of the start of the go fast options is this wild track and that is three inches wider than the badlands and four inches wider than the [00:39:00] base vehicle. 

Matt Scott: Sure we didn't have that one? Because it was already big... If that was to make any critique on the styling, I understand functionally why they did it, but the fenders do look tacked on. Like me this particular Bronco was trying to echo the first-generation Bronco, which was in its original form, relatively dainty. Like an uncut Bronco is to me a perfection for that vehicle and what I mean by that is they had this, they had for visitors or viewers, listeners... the people that are actually paying attention at this point 39 minutes and 48 seconds in, they had that kinda... the tire was a little bit covered on the rear. The difference to me between a Bronco and a [00:40:00] Wrangler was always that one was a full body vehicle and one was a narrow body vehicle with fenders. We've kind of ended up with something maybe in the middle, and I think since they are using the body from that first-generation Bronco clearly as the inspiration, because of the Bronco grill and the headlights and whatever. They looked tacked on maybe. I get why they did it otherwise you'd end up with something like real wide and this is going to be a better off road. That would maybe be my only exterior styling complaint.

Scott Brady: They're very obvious, the fender flares. It would be nice to see something that was a little bit better integrated and a little bit more body matched. 

Matt Scott: Because to me, whenever I saw a first gen Bronco that had fender flares on it, I was like ah you ruined it. It was just like, they put Bushwhacker fender flares on it and I'm [00:41:00] like what's your sister/wife's name.

Scott Brady: It was wrong. 

Matt Scott: It was just kinda like a defining design characteristic of that vehicle and you've ruined it.

Scott Brady: Ruined.

Matt Scott:Ruined.

Scott Brady:Ruined.

Matt Scott: I don't know. It's a great car. There's some things that I would have done differently, but like I'm also... I'm weird as hell. 

Scott Brady: Join the club, man. You know, what I did like is the position of all the switches, right on top of the dash, immediate, immediate.

Matt Scott: And the little upfitter switches.

Scott Brady: Right on top.

Matt Scott: You know what I kept doing? I kept going trrr trrr. Like, you know... Like I imagine, like...

Scott Brady: You feel like you're in top gun and you're like chk chk chk.

Matt Scott: I imagine, like Instagrammers are gonna have like 87,000 led [00:42:00] lights and somebody's going to go trrrr and then like they're going to blind this elderly lady that's maybe doing like three mile an hour too slow for their taste and then they can go trrrr and they can turn them all off. I mean, I have buttons that I actually have to press in my Gladiator and that just sucks now. 

Scott Brady: Yeah, you can't brrr.

Matt Scott: If you get into one of these things or you've driven a Ford, you know what I'm talking about. You can like... it's very satisfying. It's like all these successive buttons that you just go brrrr. 

Scott Brady: And I love the fact that.

Matt Scott: We spent a minute on that. 

Scott Brady: I know we did, and I love the fact that locker immediately leapt, obviously. Sway bar disconnect is immediately obvious. You go into some of these goat modes with a rotary dial and it puts the vehicle in all of the right configurations, which I think is great for new drivers. So if you go into rocks, it reminds you to go into neutral so that it can shift into low range. It [00:43:00] disconnects the sway bar. It locks the rear differential automatically. So these are really thoughtful features. I like the fact that you can lock the rear diff into wheel drive. Very fun. 

Matt Scott: Somebody actually was thinking there, like listening to feedback on that.

Scott Brady: Yeah. If you want your own version or the Scotty version of Baja mode, it is too high. Vehicle stability control off, which requires a long hold. Lock the rear diff. Very fun. 

Matt Scott: I didn't go that deep. I just bombed it down some dirt roads where it was fantastic. See, I really liked the 4A, the all wheel drive mode. I think that that is something that Jeep is starting to bring into certain models. You can get that on the Mojave. You can get that in the Sahara. For whatever reason, you can't get that on the Rubicon. As somebody that grew up in Chicago with snow stuff, four wheel [00:44:00] drive is not always great. Two wheel drives are always bad. So you're kinda like, you know, do I want to hop through the one dry intersection where all wheel drive, especially modern all wheel drive with all of the sensors... that's fantastic. I mean, it's hard for me from an empirical perspective to not call this vehicle class leading in a lot of ways. I think that I'm still probably a Wrangler guy. Not probably, I'm still a Wrangler guy. I think the interiors are nicer. I think they've got a little bit more character to them, but I think this is going to be a better performer for how most people are going to use the vehicle. You know, but...

Scott Brady: Well, let's do that. Let's compare... cause I don't have much else on my list here other than the fact that the payload is, it's just something that we do harp [00:45:00] on in this show, but you have a thousand pounds.

Matt Scott: But that's a thousand pounds with rock sliders, with 35 inch tires, with a front bumper, with a rear bumper. That's always been my argument for Gladiator and Wrangler Rubicon. When you see those figures.

Scott Brady: So you probably do have enough for winch recovery gear tools. 

Matt Scott: 87 light bars. They've got these cool mounts on it, like the A pillar mounts, which is probably one of the worst places you could mount lights. You can do that and you can put them on the roof so you can blind yourself.

Scott Brady: And it doesn't actually need much for lights because it has great lights and it has in the, in the side mirrors, it has rock lights built into it. And there's a couple switches right on the desk. 

Matt Scott: Somebody put a lot of thought into it. It's just, you know, maybe that's why the accountants had to get involved. Oh, you want to have that little led light mount. Okay. I'm going to trade you for the Fiesta center console. [00:46:00] I also thought that the orientation of the buttons was backwards. 

Scott Brady: That's because you're a Land Rover guy. 

Matt Scott: You know what I'm talking about on the windows. I kept rolling down the rear windows.

Scott Brady: I do, because Discovery Two's the truck that you drove is opposite from the Bronco. 

Matt Scott: So this is the long-term effects of the Land Rover...

Scott Brady: It is. So, whereas the buttons are the same on a D1... I have no idea why land rovers switched them from Discovery One discovery to swap. 

Matt Scott: They did switch them. 

Scott Brady: So the Bronco is the same as the D1. So it felt very normal to me, but it felt totally wrong to you because you drove a D2 for so long. So that's the problem. But I like the fact that they're right there, man. 

Matt Scott: I drove a Land Rover and now it burns when I pee. No, it doesn't. 

Scott Brady: No, it sticks with you. 

Matt Scott: There's certain things that stick with you. Like this is the Land Rover way and it's really great, lovely folks.

Scott Brady: [00:47:00] So let's compare against the Wrangler. I think that that's worthwhile. 

Matt Scott: I want to compare against the Forerunner. 

Scott Brady: Oh, interesting. 

Matt Scott: Because I think there's an argument... I think there's an argument for both a Bronco and Wrangler and we should get into that but what I can't find an argument for right now is why I would recommend somebody to buy a Forerunner over this.

Scott Brady: Well, the Forerunner in my mind, it's a lot more quiet. It's a lot more comfortable and drivable in my mind.

Matt Scott: I'd like to revisit the Bronco when they fix the top. There's no reason that they can't fix it. I mean, frankly the reason I didn't drive it off road, as much as you did as I was getting a headache driving it, like you've got hearing loss... 

Scott Brady: I have hearing loss from the air force, so I didn't hear anything. Yeah. I mean Tina, our editor, heard it at 35 miles an hour, you heard it [00:48:00] at 45 miles an hour.

Matt Scott: At 65, for me, it was unbearable. But then like also there's the people that have that iPhone ringtone that's like ding. I listened to it for like two hours. 

Scott Brady: I think, and... Well Paula, our producer, is here and Paula didn't you hear that as well? The whistling from the top, or did you not hear that? 

Matt Scott: Yeah, but they're fixing it. They've admitted a problem. I'm not going to harp on them terribly, but the drive line is worse. I mean, the Forerunner is always going to be quieter. 

Scott Brady: It's way quieter.

Matt Scott: It's a steel roof car. 

Scott Brady: I mean, you're talking about an international Prado 150 chassis, so it's very durable. It's still designed for the developing world. It just happens to be available in the United States. It has the highest resale value. So if you're making a financial decision, the Forerunner is still super appropriate for that. Lots of aftermarket support. A very upright driving [00:49:00] position. The fact that you can get a locking rear differential, A track front...

Matt Scott: It's perfect for people who love to pay more for less.

Scott Brady: I don't know that I agree with that and it's not because like, conceptually you're wrong. It's just that...

Matt Scott: Why do Toyota's maintain their value so freakishly well? Like, I mean I had a Forerunner, there's nothing wrong with it, but I had it in 2015, it was like...

Scott Brady: It's the same car as today. 

Matt Scott: It's kind of like meh back then and now you have... you know, I'll hear the argument of the Prado 150 chassis and international serviceability and yada, yada, yada. But like the pictures I've seen of this thing doing stuff like in prototype testing of friends that have sent me and had him on the trail with very accomplished Baja racers, beating the crap out of him. I don't know the durability argument... I'll hear it on the engine because [00:50:00] is like this 2.7 liter engine. You know, Ford, for example, on their 67 Diesel... The cold side intercooler pipe that goes from the intercooler to the, I think to the intake made of plastic. Poof, because they get... well, because it's natural and in anything you're going to get some kind of oil residue that's transferring with the oil, the oil breaks down the plastic, heat cycles and it goes, boom. Like this thing has a lot going on. It's got, you know, where that was the 12 inch pipe or 18 inches. This is like several feet. And then there's two of them and there's lots of plastic that... the Bronco, lots of plastic. But it kind of makes the driveline of the Wrangler look a little minivany except for the great transmission they chose.[00:51:00] 

Scott Brady: I think the Wrangler just does its job. That's the thing about a Wrangler. Right? It delivers exactly on what they promised and they keep refining the car and it feels a lot more refined.

Matt Scott: The Bronco is like Justin Bieber's first hit, you're like, oh that's catchy, but there's a lot more potential. Even if it's not your thing.

Scott Brady: Yeah. True. But I think compared to the Forerunner, it's just that the Forerunner has more payload and has 500 pounds more payload, which can be a Game Changer. It has more towing capacity, 5,000 pounds as opposed to 3,500 pound towing capacity. I think there are going to be reasons to buy the Forerunner. The Forerunner currently is a better financial choice. We don't know how resale is going to work out on the Bronco. Probably very well...

Matt Scott: In the right way, but it's an American car, you know... I will answer my own question as to why Toyota has held their resale values so well. A, for [00:52:00] example, $40,000 Toyota is $40,000 of the Toyota dealer. Maybe if you've bought some cars from them, they'll give you $500 bucks off. A $40,000 Ford if you bought it on Memorial day is $32,750. You know, if you buy it at... yeah, you get the point. They deal with these things. The business model is very different.

Scott Brady: It is. In fact, this is a great example of that. When we go to buy a project vehicle for Overland International for Overland Journal, we always ask the OEM if they have employee pricing. We're not looking for industry courtesy. A courtesy price... and with Toyota and they were very apologetic. They're like, this is our employee pricing. It was $500 off. There are domestic manufacturers. We have gotten thousands and thousands and many, many, many thousands off the vehicle, and that's the same as any other employee [00:53:00] for that OEM. There's a lot more margin from the dealer. Whereas on the Toyota, there's just not a lot. It's a very high quality vehicle. It has a reputation that has lasted the test of time. I think people gain a lot of confidence. I think that if you look at the complexity of the Bronco and all that plastic under the hood and you go off and you were going to go into the middle of nowhere with your two kids and you're driving a Forerunner, you're going down to Baja. You just don't even think about it. You just... and that's one of the things that I so appreciated about Toyota driving them around the world is even when I was in the middle of nowhere in Antarctica and I was days from help, I was literally at what they call these points of inaccessibility and you cannot get help. They can maybe drop some things out of an airplane to you that I was so glad I was driving a High Lux and I think that that is what, at the end of the day when you talk about our [00:54:00] audience, why they buy Toyotas is because of the confidence that the vehicle gives you and that's worth a lot of money and maybe it's worth a lot of compromises. I mean, we may dig on the Tacoma a little bit for justifiable reasons, but I think that people, at the end of the day... We want it to be better. But people at the end of the day, they're willing to compromise a lot to feel safe. We do that in all kinds of areas of our life and I think that if you want a vehicle, that's going to be better than buying a Bronco over Forerunner. It performs much better and it looks... I mean, I actually really liked the way that a Forerunner looks, but I would say that the Bronco is much more charming.

Matt Scott: Very squinty and angry though. As long as they don't take the Lexus design language. 

Scott Brady: But they're doing that. They're doing that by the time this comes out, the new Tundra will be out for people to look at it's very angry grill so they're doing that [00:55:00] and the Toyota's as well, but so then now let's compare it against the Wrangler. So I would say, because I did drive the Bronco in very technical terrain. Limits of capability terrain such as rock crawling, waterfall, huge holes where we were hitting rock sliders, hitting bumpers at the limits of the available ground clearance and traction the tires are just so surprisingly good, so I think that that's a real advantage. 

Matt Scott: Those Good Years. I mean...

Scott Brady: You have them on your TRX, right? 

Matt Scott: Yeah. I've hit 0.8 lateral Gs with them, like they boogie.

Scott Brady: They do. They're great. High-speed and they're actually really good in the rocks, where they'll struggle a little bit is going to be in the mud. But they're excellent tires. The fact that the sway bar disconnect works the way that it does, and it manages the head toss, I think, is an advantage over the Wrangler, but the Wrangler has more overall [00:56:00] articulation. Out of the box. If you were to try to put a recon Wrangler against a Bronco, there's going to be the advantage going to the Bronco at speed, obviously. Then there's going to be a very small advantage to the Wrangler at low speed and that's because of a little bit more articulation. The body's tucked in a little bit further and the wheels are a little further out. Then the approach departure angle... 

Matt Scott: I'm not trying to pontificate here, but I don't think most people will or have the skill to take advantage of the additional capability that a Wrangler offers, where with the Bronco you can realize more advantages in day-to-day use.

Scott Brady: No question and it's easier to drive on the trail. It's actually more effective at performing well on the trail. The switch position is really good. The modes are very intuitive. The vehicle is very confidence inspiring on [00:57:00] our test track we have about a 26 degree side slope that we can put vehicles on. When you're in a Wrangler with the sway bar disconnected, it feels frightening. Like it feels very unstable. Whereas with this Bronco, I was giggling because it was so effortless. Our test track is designed to push the limits of stock vehicles. There has only been one vehicle that was effortless before this, and that was the Wrangler and the Bronco was just as effortless in that terrain. So we had to go find other obstacles to test it against, I think at the end of the day the Wrangler is actually a more refined product.

Matt Scott: A hundred percent and it's the Filson bag to the REI bag. You know, the Bronco...

Scott Brady: Or the Arc'teryx bag.

Matt Scott: It's got more zippers and it's got this and it's got this and this technical material and whatever, but...

Scott Brady: The Wrangler is no less of a [00:58:00] product against the Bronco. It's really important to disclose that because especially if you're wanting to get to ultimate capability, you can modify a Wrangler much more than you can modify the Bronco. If you like driving faster on dirt roads and or you love Baja Bronco. Take the Bronco. And if you're looking for something that's like retro style, the Bronco's also great in that regard as well. The motor's really, really nice. Which is not to take something off against the new Wrangler.

Matt Scott: I don't think the 36 is a spectacular motor at all. I think that it's adequate and that's about it. Like it's kind of...

Scott Brady: But what was their answer to that? 392. So you can now get a V8 Wrangler. I mean, Jeep is going to protect this market as much as they can and they are being very aggressive about it. 

Matt Scott: And I think the interesting thing is that, you know, Bronco did really well with bringing [00:59:00] external experts as consultants in to advise them on this new product. Jeep has those in-house.

Scott Brady: They do, although I would say as a cautionary tale is that I think Jeep has started to alienate those kinds of people by becoming a little bit too closed off and at the end of the day, you need to have fresh ideas. I think that the Bronco team has done a good job of bringing...

Matt Scott: Well Bronco's writing the checks to everybody. Bronco's writing the checks to the trophy truck, monster energy folks, and all those guys. So, you know, they're going to get that. 

Scott Brady: And if Jeep isn't careful, if you become too closed off and you become too Mopar focused in your aftermarket and you don't support the aftermarket. I think Jeep needs to be careful about making sure that they give access to CAD drawings [01:00:00] early and that they bring in the aftermarket to continue to make...

Matt Scott: That's a really good point.

Scott Brady: Because these Ford folks aren't stupid. So they realize that because Wrangler is becoming more insular and they're so focused on mopar. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. That's a really good way to say that. Something I hadn't considered before.

Scott Brady: I believe that Jeep runs the risk if they don't keep themselves open to the aftermarket and communicate well with people in the industry that they're going to miss opportunities that someone like Ford, it is going to be happy to scoop up. 

Matt Scott: You can see, like you can get rigid lights on a Bronco and then Jeep will sell you their more expensive, weird things that don't even look good.

Scott Brady: I have not seen good things come out of Mopar for the most part. It's not that they make terrible things. I think they're adequate items. Yeah. But we're seeing...

Matt Scott: The very used car salesman, like [01:01:00] what's the... Mohs Magnuson or... God, what is it? It's the act that says. You know, the earnestness is on the manufacturer to prove that this aftermarket accessory really did affect it. And I remember like at the launch of the JL the Mopar guy was there. He's like, oh well, these are only accessories that won't void your warranty. If you put another lift kit it'll void your warranty and I'm like... 

Scott Brady: That's not actually true. 

Matt Scott: You're kind of a freaking idiot. Like really? You're saying that right now? Like you're being protectionist and you're being very...

Scott Brady: That sums it up. Mopar is being protectionist against the aftermarket. That is a bad move. There are very bright people in the aftermarket that are making very good components for Jeeps and they're getting a little bit exhausted by the obstacles that are being placed in their way to making great parts. So [01:02:00] Jeep has always had an advantage in the space 

Matt Scott: It's the number one vehicle according to SEMA for aftermarket spending.

Scott Brady: And you don't want that to change. It's part of the reason why jeeps are so popular is because you can personalize them to your heart's desire. If you look at what Bronco's doing there, they're inviting the aftermarket in they're saying, I know Jeep is not supporting you. I know that Jeep is trying to sell Chinese knockoff goods through Mopar. Bring your high quality components to us and put them on our vehicle. Come on, ARB. Let's work together. We're going to give you a vehicle to design and develop against ahead of the... aftermarket test vehicles before the media did. So that says a lot about their intention. So I think at the end of the day, this kind of competitive pressure is so good for us. 

Matt Scott: Yeah, I think so. I think so too. I mean, it'll be interesting to see [01:03:00] also how Toyota responds. They've kind of got to be watching this and looking. They have a loyal following.

Scott Brady: So I have two questions for you. The first question is what model of the 8 billion models of Bronco would you buy? And then the second question is, would you actually buy it? 

Matt Scott: You know, I'd get the Sasquatch, but I wouldn't buy one. All of the touch points on that vehicle are just too cheap for me, you know? Like frankly when I get something, like, I like to get the leather in the car, I like to get things, you know, I like the tech and I don't trust... you know, like, I think I was telling you that like I had a lane keeping assist on, and I was going through a four way intersection and I almost got in an accident cause the car just went and almost took me to another thing, quick hands and got it out. I just, I don't like the Bronco. Like I don't know what it is. Like I'm [01:04:00] trying to be empirical in my analysis of it.

Scott Brady: But that's different from how you feel.

Matt Scott: How do I personally feel? I feel like it's got some great off-road chops, but I can't get past the accountant cash grab interior and exterior. Like, it just... it does not feel like a crafted product. I'm not saying that the Wrangler's necessarily like well-crafted either. But they've been doing it for a little bit longer. So I would not buy one. 

Scott Brady: And to your defense, you recently had a Raptor, and you loved that car, 

Matt Scott: Loved the Raptor, if they would have put the same spend into the interior that they do for like all of the F-150s... The interiors frankly are not that great on the Raptor either. I mean, you know, they'll put a little red Stripe on the steering wheel, but [01:05:00] other than that, it's the same vents, same dash, it's the same everything. I do like the landscape screen that they're doing in the Bronco, but I would get into it and I would just be like... I bought into the hype and an accountant is taking advantage of me. That's just what I wouldn't be able to get by. Our test vehicle was $58,000 and I know that that's competitive with Rubicon and stuff like that. But it's not there yet for me to be honest, you know, but it's hard to get into a vehicle that you don't want to drive because it gives you a headache.

Scott Brady: Yeah. They've got to fix that top. 

Matt Scott: Yeah. Like it's, it's bad, like through a carwash after I took it off road and I'm like, is it going to leak on me?

Scott Brady: Yeah. It didn't leak through the carwash, which I was happy with. People who did not talk to each other that use the vehicle within our team. They all mentioned the whistling top. It's only because I'm half deaf that [01:06:00] I didn't really notice it.

Matt Scott: But if somebody like lined me up and said, you have to take a Forerunner or this, I would take this. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. The Forerunner is 8 billion years old. Right. So.

Matt Scott: Yeah, it's just not competitive. I would be interested in the... I don't know, Warthog or whatever. They're going to call the Raptor version of it. If they put some bucks in the interior. Because it's like a diminishing return for me. It's like at 58 grand, I don't care about the performance of whatever I would like seats that don't feel like a hospital incontinence pad. What about you?

Scott Brady: I think that sums it up nicely. Your thoughts? I would get it. Probably similar packaging to what the test vehicle was. I would probably get a different color, and I would definitely get the manual transmission because that would just be so [01:07:00] joyful. But I appreciated the vehicle so much for what it was, but I could not find myself at the end of it saying this is something that I would buy. And I think that it is because I can get a Gladiator with a diesel. 

Matt Scott: Do you remember when Microsoft came out with their iPod competitor and it had like all these crazy whatever features, but you wanted an iPod. That's how I feel. 

Scott Brady: Yeah. And, at the end of the day, I think that the best product for overlanding that Ford makes today is the Tremor. The thing is other than the unloaded ride quality.

Matt Scott: For basically the same price you can get a Tremor. So there's the argument of value is that you can get they're big V8, the Godzilla 73 in a [01:08:00] Tremor. Cause at 58, you're not getting leather seats or whatever, you're at an XLT package anyways, they're going to be nearly the same price. You're getting a much better interior for overlanding. I think that's a better choice. So yeah, that's just my overall feeling. It's like, you're offering less when you're offering more at similar price points because you can.

Scott Brady: Maybe it's the case or maybe it isn't, maybe it's just price pressures to make the vehicle perform so well and have such a great drive train they have to make compromises. That's probably what they...

Matt Scott: But I'm not a Mustang guy either. 

Scott Brady: Exactly. But it is so fun to see that it's here. It is literally... It's one of the most charming vehicles I've driven in a very long time. I just found that I could not make the connection to it to me personally.

Matt Scott: It didn't have much character. 

Scott Brady: Well, I thought it had tons of character, but it didn't have much connection to me. 

Matt Scott: Like the motor sounded [01:09:00] kind of like, not that the 36 Pentastar is anything...

Scott Brady: No, it sounds terrible.

Matt Scott: I'm just going to stop there. 

Scott Brady: But that two seven, it rips, it's fun. It's totally fun. So on the Bronco, it drives great. Driving trains are great. There are a lot of compromises around fit, finish, and material quality. If you're interested in the very best Ford Overland vehicle right now, go check out the Tremor. That's my opinion. 

Matt Scott: A hundred percent or a Raptor. I miss my Raptor. I mean, even with the TRX.

Scott Brady: How is that possible with the TRX? 

Matt Scott: Well, the TRX is a better road car. The Raptor is better if you're going to modify it to go off-road. 

Scott Brady: Okay. All right. That's interesting. We'll have to have a conversation about that later. All right. Well, thank you all for listening and we will talk to you next time.